Adjustable shocks with OEM-like ride quality and comfort
10-29-2017, 05:51 PM
#21
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Yep. Xida is not Lexus. Xida is not more comfortable than stock over pothole.
Xida IS a far better compromise if you are autocrossing. Xida is not harsh, though it is firm... There's a difference. I will say this... The Xida excels over small, choppy bumps. If you have, say, a washboard surface, the Xida will do a better job at absorbing the bumps and keeping the tires in contact with the road than the stock suspension would.
Xida IS a far better compromise if you are autocrossing. Xida is not harsh, though it is firm... There's a difference. I will say this... The Xida excels over small, choppy bumps. If you have, say, a washboard surface, the Xida will do a better job at absorbing the bumps and keeping the tires in contact with the road than the stock suspension would.
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10-31-2017, 06:47 PM
#24
No one here is wrong, but why is $500 vs $1700 discussion happening as though it is an even comparison? Better is better, but you have to set the expectation... and the ace? $4k. I’m sure they are the best if you are in the market, but prob not much overlap here.
Also, I have heard horrible things about illuminas with shorter/stiffer springs, as a data point.
Also, I have heard horrible things about illuminas with shorter/stiffer springs, as a data point.
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10-31-2017, 10:09 PM
#26
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Good question I forgot to say something about it.
I want mainly to be able to have a preferred setup in autox and then go full soft on my way home.
I drove a NB with adjustable shocks and I was impressed how easy it was to dial in some oversteer for some courses and then go back to a street setup.
I don't want stiffer springs and I already have tried adjustable and larger rear sway bars
I want mainly to be able to have a preferred setup in autox and then go full soft on my way home.
I drove a NB with adjustable shocks and I was impressed how easy it was to dial in some oversteer for some courses and then go back to a street setup.
I don't want stiffer springs and I already have tried adjustable and larger rear sway bars
The main question I have for you is whether you want to stay on stock springs, and it's corollary, what class you plan to run. If you can do coilovers, have a look at V-MAXX from FM, or even Bilstein PSS9. Both are decent entry-level, dual-purpose setups. The PSS9 rebound adjuster is more of a gimmick than anything, and you'll end up setting it at 5 and leaving it there. The spring rates are also strange for a Miata, but they still perform pretty well for what they are. Personally, I would go with the V-MAXX, though. Both have shocks that are good enough to make the higher spring rates comfortable on the street.
If you are staying on stock springs and are interested in shocks only, I like Konis better than Illuminas, although plenty of people will disagree. In any case, those are really your only choices for your stated goals with stock springs.
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11-01-2017, 08:35 AM
#27
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Stock spring rates are generally around 160/95 depending upon year and options. The bump stops do most of the "springing" as soon as you start to turn. This is why most entry level aftermarket setups jump up to around 300/200 immediately and go up from there. At 300/200 you will still be on the bumpstops with narrow all season tires in a hard corner. A stock Miata tends to "crash" over big dips in the pavement because the springs are so soft and the interaction with the bumpstops is so harsh. It's an engineering trade off to give you smooth ride over smooth pavement and firmer cornering. As the stock springs sag it becomes easier to make that contact because there is less travel available.
It is important to have enough spring and sway bar to keep the suspension off the bumpstops in a hard corner with your chosen tire. The suspension still needs the ability to absorb undulations and irregularities while in that hard corner, or you will bottom out and unsettle the car. If you use a wider and/or stickier tire you will need more spring to accomplish this because you will be generating more cornering force and therefore more body roll.
And, if you have more spring you will need more control through shock valving to prevent bounding and bouncing. That undulation in the pavement in the middle of the corner may not cause you to hit the bumpstops now, but it may launch your car upwards or unload your contact patch unless the digressive compression gives in and the rebound maintains stability.
It's a large combination of things working together as a system.
It is important to have enough spring and sway bar to keep the suspension off the bumpstops in a hard corner with your chosen tire. The suspension still needs the ability to absorb undulations and irregularities while in that hard corner, or you will bottom out and unsettle the car. If you use a wider and/or stickier tire you will need more spring to accomplish this because you will be generating more cornering force and therefore more body roll.
And, if you have more spring you will need more control through shock valving to prevent bounding and bouncing. That undulation in the pavement in the middle of the corner may not cause you to hit the bumpstops now, but it may launch your car upwards or unload your contact patch unless the digressive compression gives in and the rebound maintains stability.
It's a large combination of things working together as a system.
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11-01-2017, 11:32 AM
#28
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Take it from someone who has been in your shoes, just modify the car how you want and whatever class it falls into in autox it falls into. You can effectivly run a super stiff shock to add "spring rate" and help with body roll in transitions. You either have a non-adjustable that is a trailer queen and sucks on the street or you pony up big bucks for something else thats a one off valved for autox but adjustable. Building a dual duty i.e. daily driver car to be competitive in stock autox class is silly. Pick a good coil over and enjoy life. The information you are seeking is hard to find because its a terrible idea. You need more seat time than super trick shocks on stock springs imho.
A great daily driver at stock power would have some form of coil over, a 15x8 with a 400tw 205 for the street, stock sways, etc. Drive to the autox on your 9's and sticky tires, have fun, win life. You could also explain your goals, what experience you have, timeframe, and budget.
A great daily driver at stock power would have some form of coil over, a 15x8 with a 400tw 205 for the street, stock sways, etc. Drive to the autox on your 9's and sticky tires, have fun, win life. You could also explain your goals, what experience you have, timeframe, and budget.
Last edited by jacob300zx; 11-01-2017 at 11:43 AM.
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11-01-2017, 12:01 PM
#29
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Ok now you’re getting downright unreasonable and I won’t allow it. Performance aside the regular xidas are NOT as comfy as stock showas/sprins or the illuminas. Maybe the ace are, haven’t tried yet, but the others are not. You can disagree till you’re blue in the face but I’ve done back to back drives so many times that I will always call BS on the street comfort claims
illumina + fm springs is VERY comfy on the street. better than my teins were.
xidas were okay on the street considering the crazy rates.
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11-03-2017, 11:39 AM
#30
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Stock spring rates are generally around 160/95 depending upon year and options. The bump stops do most of the "springing" as soon as you start to turn. This is why most entry level aftermarket setups jump up to around 300/200 immediately and go up from there. At 300/200 you will still be on the bumpstops with narrow all season tires in a hard corner. A stock Miata tends to "crash" over big dips in the pavement because the springs are so soft and the interaction with the bumpstops is so harsh. It's an engineering trade off to give you smooth ride over smooth pavement and firmer cornering. As the stock springs sag it becomes easier to make that contact because there is less travel available.
It is important to have enough spring and sway bar to keep the suspension off the bumpstops in a hard corner with your chosen tire. The suspension still needs the ability to absorb undulations and irregularities while in that hard corner, or you will bottom out and unsettle the car. If you use a wider and/or stickier tire you will need more spring to accomplish this because you will be generating more cornering force and therefore more body roll.
And, if you have more spring you will need more control through shock valving to prevent bounding and bouncing. That undulation in the pavement in the middle of the corner may not cause you to hit the bumpstops now, but it may launch your car upwards or unload your contact patch unless the digressive compression gives in and the rebound maintains stability.
It's a large combination of things working together as a system.
It is important to have enough spring and sway bar to keep the suspension off the bumpstops in a hard corner with your chosen tire. The suspension still needs the ability to absorb undulations and irregularities while in that hard corner, or you will bottom out and unsettle the car. If you use a wider and/or stickier tire you will need more spring to accomplish this because you will be generating more cornering force and therefore more body roll.
And, if you have more spring you will need more control through shock valving to prevent bounding and bouncing. That undulation in the pavement in the middle of the corner may not cause you to hit the bumpstops now, but it may launch your car upwards or unload your contact patch unless the digressive compression gives in and the rebound maintains stability.
It's a large combination of things working together as a system.
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11-03-2017, 11:46 AM
#32
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Experience... Driving for more than 25 years, I have approx. 2 million miles in around 1000 (maybe more) cars ranging from 800 cc Kei cars to 700 hp Lambos. I have done some racing, mostly rallying on gravel. Never raced competitively on track but I have done track days on some major tracks around Europe. Experience in the automotive industry goes a lot deeper than my driving experience. It has to do with my past profession...
Timeframe... Not in a rush.
Budget... Willing to pay for things that are worthy but I don't intend to throw money away. I could go for a DFV Ohlins and call it a day but I like to research and experiment with my cars.
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11-03-2017, 11:52 AM
#34
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Excellent point made about tires and I forgot to mention. I am running 14X6 OEM hollow spokes from a '97 with 185/60 summer tires. No intention to go wider/larger/stickier. Many reasons for my wheel/tire choice that I am too bored to explain right now.
I want to thank every one who is posting cause it is very interesting to read and learn despite the fact that some things written are quite contradictory. Interesting and entertaining at the same time.
I want to thank every one who is posting cause it is very interesting to read and learn despite the fact that some things written are quite contradictory. Interesting and entertaining at the same time.
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11-03-2017, 03:09 PM
#35
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If I was in Europe using 185/60 R14 all season tires I would consider just using MSM Bilstein shocks, a DIY adjustable spring perch setup, some 300/200 Summit Racing springs, and shorter or cut down OEM bumpstops.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...-300/overview/
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...5200/overview/
Or, if you are really on a budget, get the MSM Bilsteins and buy the springs and adjustable perches for the front. Move the original front springs to the rear and trim to appropriate ride height. Don't laugh, it isn't a bad way to go on the street and rides nicely on all seasons.
I'll probably get flamed for saying it but for stock style tires it was pretty darn good for rough street drivability. I lived in Germany and know the rough street problem is real.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...-300/overview/
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...5200/overview/
Or, if you are really on a budget, get the MSM Bilsteins and buy the springs and adjustable perches for the front. Move the original front springs to the rear and trim to appropriate ride height. Don't laugh, it isn't a bad way to go on the street and rides nicely on all seasons.
I'll probably get flamed for saying it but for stock style tires it was pretty darn good for rough street drivability. I lived in Germany and know the rough street problem is real.
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11-03-2017, 04:12 PM
#36
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Goals... I thought I already did. A dual purpose Miata to serve as a DD and some trackday/autox fun. Of course its a compromise I don't expect miracles to happen out of nowhere.
Experience... Driving for more than 25 years, I have approx. 2 million miles in around 1000 (maybe more) cars ranging from 800 cc Kei cars to 700 hp Lambos. I have done some racing, mostly rallying on gravel. Never raced competitively on track but I have done track days on some major tracks around Europe. Experience in the automotive industry goes a lot deeper than my driving experience. It has to do with my past profession...
Timeframe... Not in a rush.
Budget... Willing to pay for things that are worthy but I don't intend to throw money away. I could go for a DFV Ohlins and call it a day but I like to research and experiment with my cars.
Experience... Driving for more than 25 years, I have approx. 2 million miles in around 1000 (maybe more) cars ranging from 800 cc Kei cars to 700 hp Lambos. I have done some racing, mostly rallying on gravel. Never raced competitively on track but I have done track days on some major tracks around Europe. Experience in the automotive industry goes a lot deeper than my driving experience. It has to do with my past profession...
Timeframe... Not in a rush.
Budget... Willing to pay for things that are worthy but I don't intend to throw money away. I could go for a DFV Ohlins and call it a day but I like to research and experiment with my cars.
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11-03-2017, 04:18 PM
#37
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If I was in Europe using 185/60 R14 all season tires I would consider just using MSM Bilstein shocks, a DIY adjustable spring perch setup, some 300/200 Summit Racing springs, and shorter or cut down OEM bumpstops.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...-300/overview/
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...5200/overview/
Or, if you are really on a budget, get the MSM Bilsteins and buy the springs and adjustable perches for the front. Move the original front springs to the rear and trim to appropriate ride height. Don't laugh, it isn't a bad way to go on the street and rides nicely on all seasons.
I'll probably get flamed for saying it but for stock style tires it was pretty darn good for rough street drivability. I lived in Germany and know the rough street problem is real.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...-300/overview/
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/s...5200/overview/
Or, if you are really on a budget, get the MSM Bilsteins and buy the springs and adjustable perches for the front. Move the original front springs to the rear and trim to appropriate ride height. Don't laugh, it isn't a bad way to go on the street and rides nicely on all seasons.
I'll probably get flamed for saying it but for stock style tires it was pretty darn good for rough street drivability. I lived in Germany and know the rough street problem is real.
Thanks again I really appreciate it.
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11-03-2017, 05:46 PM
#38
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The valving in the MSM Bilsteins offers excellent control without the ride being jittery or harsh. They are a very well valved shocks in that regard. Excellent road manners over uneven pavement and good low speed damping to avoid being floaty and disconnected from the road.
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