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Old 10-21-2013, 10:51 AM   #121
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Also, what's the consensus on upgrades for the 3rd gear synchro? Mine seems to be getting a little crunchy if driven angrily. Fresh fluid made minor differences, ( I have the MS box, though I'm quite confident that makes no difference).


And, bbundy. My offer still stands. Once you have figured out the route you would like to take, money will be on it's way.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:30 AM   #122
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Originally Posted by pdexta View Post
I really like the S15 6 speed for the street. There's one on ebay for $449, if the guts swap out that should end up cheaper and give you a taller 6th than a 3.63 swap. It looks even more attractive when you consider you could sell the S15 transmission with miata guts for little or no loss when you were done with it.
Searching S15 forums most of the track guys swap in the NISMO 6th into the stock box so it changes it from .767 to .862. I would bet the .843 from the Miata would fit as well. 6th gear is just two gears that slide on the ends of the shaft that can be accessed by just taking the tail housing off. I don't think the NISMO 6th gear only is very expensive.

.767 is stupid with the other gears for track use. ever driven a car floored in at redline in a gear but if you shift to the next higher gear and floor it slows down? They put that gear in for low rpm freeway cruising not using on a racetrack.

Last edited by bbundy; 10-21-2013 at 03:57 PM.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:50 AM   #123
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I have thought of this as well. Since piston engines don't generate power smoothly, but rather in a series of violent pulses like an air-impact ratchet, it would follow that removing the compliance and impulse smoothing would lead to higher momentary forces. An unsprung clutch, hard motor mounts, hard diff mounts, and, to a lesser degree, hard rear suspension bushings could contribute to the intensity of each impact.

Example: Lay a wheel bearing race on an anvil and strike it with a hammer and it leaves a pretty good dent in it. Put the race on a wood block and strike it and it doesn't hurt it nearly as bad. Put the race on a rubber block (like an old diff bushing) and strike it with the hammer and you will not hurt it much at all. The same amount of force was absorbed all three times with significantly different results to the metal race.

Driver comfort isn't the only reason a factory engineer builds compliance into any drivetrain. Component stress and fatigue life is a consideration.
I have a 1.6l clutch. ACT extreme with 4 puck. I also broke transmissions running the sprung center disks the including the first 6 speed. what I found is the spring slop was making it behave like a slide hammer the springs showed evidence of bottoming out hard and the sprung center would start to brake apart. Under full load the springs are bottomed against hard stop it really only provides isolation under part load. The sprung centers that are available reduces shock loading substantialy for daily driving and crusing but I think might even make the shock loading worse if primarily the car is driven in anger on a track.

FWIW however The S15 uses a sprung dual mass flywheel with a rigid clutch disk.

Last edited by bbundy; 10-21-2013 at 02:54 PM.
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Old 10-21-2013, 11:57 AM   #124
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And, bbundy. My offer still stands. Once you have figured out the route you would like to take, money will be on it's way.
Right now I'm going to try to use an S15 box and swap parts over. I currently have no money in the parts racing account budget till the beginning of next month. Id gladly accept a donated S15 transmission at any time. they seem to cost around the same as Miata 6 speeds.

Doing a shitload of research in the meantime however.
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:14 PM   #125
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Right now I'm going to try to use an S15 box and swap parts over. I currently have no money in the parts racing account budget till the beginning of next month. Id gladly accept a donated S15 transmission at any time. they seem to cost around the same as Miata 6 speeds.

Doing a shitload of research in the meantime however.
That's where my research stopped. Shopped for used S15 boxes here locally for a bit then moved on to other things. I'm anxious to see if that AZ6 based box is close enough to swap bits.
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:49 PM   #126
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That's where my research stopped. Shopped for used S15 boxes here locally for a bit then moved on to other things. I'm anxious to see if that AZ6 based box is close enough to swap bits.
I think if it works there is a really good shot the NISM0 box would also work. 30%higher design torque rating and even better track gearing make it pretty sexy looking but not cheap.

FWIW as near as I can tell the internals of the new BRZ/FRS might also be the same as the S15 box.

Bob
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Old 10-22-2013, 06:37 AM   #127
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As a former lsx guy, t56's were designed to operate with the power levels you have and then some in 1k lb+ heavier cars with big meaty tires.

Rx7 guys are adapting them to FD's because their transmission can't handle the torque. I'd imagine a junkyard stocker with low miles would be perfectly fine behind your 350lb/ft.

FD transmission solution for 500+ hp - RX7Club.com
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Old 10-22-2013, 07:41 AM   #128
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T56 120-125 lbs
AZ6 85-90 lbs
Whatever weight data you believe/measure it's a noticeable difference.

Only used a T56 once and it didn't encourage fast shifting (But I have never felt comfortable in a Camaro).
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Old 10-22-2013, 09:47 AM   #129
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T56 120-125 lbs
AZ6 85-90 lbs
Whatever weight data you believe/measure it's a noticeable difference.

Only used a T56 once and it didn't encourage fast shifting (But I have never felt comfortable in a Camaro).
I know it is... but having a reliable drivetrain sure is nice. It's going to take x amount of beef to handle x amount of lb/ft.

The shifter in the f-body's isn't that great and it was hampered by a terrible slave cylinder in 99-00. 01+ got a newer design and shifted noticeably smoother. I never had any trouble in the probably 10+ t56 cars at stock power levels I've driven powershifting. Drove a ls1/t56 drift 240 making 390 this summer and it was glorious.

What about the aisin ar5 trans in the Solstice/Sky? Isn't that basically a MIII Supra trans? Those seem to live behind the turbo ecotec pretty well.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:36 AM   #130
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I know it is... but having a reliable drivetrain sure is nice. It's going to take x amount of beef to handle x amount of lb/ft.

The shifter in the f-body's isn't that great and it was hampered by a terrible slave cylinder in 99-00. 01+ got a newer design and shifted noticeably smoother. I never had any trouble in the probably 10+ t56 cars at stock power levels I've driven powershifting. Drove a ls1/t56 drift 240 making 390 this summer and it was glorious.

What about the aisin ar5 trans in the Solstice/Sky? Isn't that basically a MIII Supra trans? Those seem to live behind the turbo ecotec pretty well.
Expanding options to what won't bolt up without significant fabrication I was leaning to the AY6.

Aisin AY transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:55 AM   #131
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I know it is... but having a reliable drivetrain sure is nice. It's going to take x amount of beef to handle x amount of lb/ft.
IMO, the idea of adding 50+lbs to the car to get a reliable transmission isn't an acceptable one.

Quote:
What about the aisin ar5 trans in the Solstice/Sky? Isn't that basically a MIII Supra trans? Those seem to live behind the turbo ecotec pretty well.
Ever driven one? The ratios are awful. Worse than the TII box. 3.75:1, 2.26:1, 1.37:1, 1.00:1, 0.73:1. Drive an AZ6 sometime, but drive it without 3rd gear - that's what an AR5 feels like.

In general, there are several options out there that are cheap, strong, heavy, and have awful gear ratios. I want an option that is strong, light, and has good gear ratios, and I'm willing to sacrifice cheap to get it.
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:19 PM   #132
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Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
Expanding options to what won't bolt up without significant fabrication I was leaning to the AY6.

Aisin AY transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
One trailer gear and then tighter 2-5.
But this post list other ratios for Caddy CTS. Mix and match?
But six year old webfacts is just that, webfacts.
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Old 10-22-2013, 12:44 PM   #133
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IMO, the idea of adding 50+lbs to the car to get a reliable transmission isn't an acceptable one.



Ever driven one? The ratios are awful. Worse than the TII box. 3.75:1, 2.26:1, 1.37:1, 1.00:1, 0.73:1. Drive an AZ6 sometime, but drive it without 3rd gear - that's what an AR5 feels like.

In general, there are several options out there that are cheap, strong, heavy, and have awful gear ratios. I want an option that is strong, light, and has good gear ratios, and I'm willing to sacrifice cheap to get it.
If it works Im thinking NISMO turned into a miata transmission might be your answer so far while staying well under $10k.

Last edited by bbundy; 10-22-2013 at 01:35 PM.
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Old 10-22-2013, 03:05 PM   #134
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I'm still not convinced the Nismo isn't going to puke on you either as you'll be running right at it's 'limits'.

Just fork out the extra $3K above your $10k and be the Baus... I'm applying for new Visa right now

Quaife QBE69G - for when the QBE60G isn't enough... the 60G is only rated at a MAX 300 lbft and 375 bhp...

The 69G is good for over 750bhp (didn't list torque) and come in several different gear ratio options. I think this is best with 2.759 1st gear?

Straight cut (o/d) 2.435 1.858 1.494 1.217 1.000 0.870
Option (o/d) 2.759 2.050 1.565

Yours today for only $13,000



In action:





Alright - time to pull head out of the clouds...

Last edited by GeneSplicer; 10-22-2013 at 03:29 PM.
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Old 10-22-2013, 04:35 PM   #135
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Dam it don't post videos like that now I’ll be dreaming of having shifting like that for weeks while my ***** turn blue not getting what I want until I can put it out of my mind.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:23 PM   #136
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Didn't mazda motorsports(mazdacomp) make a competition 5 speed with a final drive that could be swapped without removing the trans? It might have been for rx7s? I don't know if it was much stronger but I thought you could get it with heavier duty gears.
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Old 10-22-2013, 11:30 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bbundy View Post
Right now I'm going to try to use an S15 box and swap parts over. I currently have no money in the parts racing account budget till the beginning of next month. Id gladly accept a donated S15 transmission at any time. they seem to cost around the same as Miata 6 speeds.

Doing a shitload of research in the meantime however.
If it turns out everything works as you suspect once you get around to trying it I'd be interested in buying the take-off .767 6th gears from you.
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Old 10-23-2013, 01:31 AM   #138
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Quaife QBE69G - for when the QBE60G isn't enough... the 60G is only rated at a MAX 300 lbft and 375 bhp...

Boy, I thought my gearbox was noisy...
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Old 10-23-2013, 02:48 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by GeneSplicer View Post
I'm still not convinced the Nismo isn't going to puke on you either as you'll be running right at it's 'limits'.

Just fork out the extra $3K above your $10k and be the Baus... I'm applying for new Visa right now

Quaife QBE69G - for when the QBE60G isn't enough... the 60G is only rated at a MAX 300 lbft and 375 bhp...

The 69G is good for over 750bhp (didn't list torque) and come in several different gear ratio options. I think this is best with 2.759 1st gear?

Straight cut (o/d) 2.435 1.858 1.494 1.217 1.000 0.870
Option (o/d) 2.759 2.050 1.565

Yours today for only $13,000

Still 10k cheaper than hewland quoted me for a 6 speed sequential w/ reverse. That excluded the custom bellhousing.

Ah well, back to dreaming
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Old 10-23-2013, 09:46 AM   #140
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FWIW, the turbocharged 350z engine I helped a buddy pull recently is mated to a 6-speed. He was making 425whp/435wtq without failure.

But the ratios are:
1st -3.794
2nd -2.324
3rd -1.624
4th-1.271
5th -1.000
6th -0.794

Here are some other ratios available in the Nissans:

Nissan Motor Company Transmission Gear Ratios
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