The Better Bilstein Ebay Coilover Thread
07-16-2018, 07:28 PM
#1523
You're all crossed up and sideways, Bilsteins are gas shocks so they will come back up as long as there is still pressure in the shock, the only way to release the pressure is to squirt oil out the seals unless. Even if the pressure was released it wouldn't stick in the down position. Like mentioned coil bind just hurts your spine, you'll see the paint damaged between the coils if this is the case and again won't stick down.
Money is still on bent shaft.
Money is still on bent shaft.
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07-24-2018, 04:10 PM
#1524
Newb
Join Date: May 2017
Location: miami
Posts: 6
Total Cats: 0
You're all crossed up and sideways, Bilsteins are gas shocks so they will come back up as long as there is still pressure in the shock, the only way to release the pressure is to squirt oil out the seals unless. Even if the pressure was released it wouldn't stick in the down position. Like mentioned coil bind just hurts your spine, you'll see the paint damaged between the coils if this is the case and again won't stick down.
Money is still on bent shaft.
Money is still on bent shaft.
I took the rear passgener side apar., It does return to it's posotion on its own.
I decided it makes more sense to replace the rear two together. The correct would be the B8 bilstein?
So I did some more testing, I raised the rear to 13-13.5" (Compared to the front was at 12" looks a little funny)
hooked up the rearsway, stock (also have a rear flying miata).
nowt no longer happens, a couple days ago and driving over a mild pothole at 50 would cause this problem,
Now today I can hit severe pot holes, and nothing happens
I was told it essentially borrows spring rate from the other side under load?
tldr;sway bar and increased ride height makes the problem go away
which shock do I order; B8?
1" rear extended top hat?
ay caramba
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07-25-2018, 04:25 PM
#1525
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 85
Total Cats: 4
97R Billies?
Been reading the thread from the beginning, made it to about 16 of 77 pages and hadn't seen an answer to this yet... so here's the question:
Are 97 R Billies worth using if you got them for nothing? The goal being to improve a bone stock 92 (probably on original 67K mile suspension) with anything on the dirt cheap since I'm likely going to flip the car in the next 6 months and I don't want to spend any money on it. It'll never see a track unless I drive past one, but on the street I will throw it around like the cheap flip car it is so better than 25 year old mush would be nice. I know I have a few 2.5" springs laying around in the 6-7" and 200-400 lb range from playing with the GC setup on another car, so I count them as 'free' for purposes of justification.. Thinking something 350ish/275ish is where it will land.
So, parts would be:
$0 97R Billies
$0 Springs - whatever I have that's 7" and near 350/275 or QA1's if I have to buy
$64 + $55 Sleeves & collars - All Star 64132 + 64180 (via Summit) looks to be a good bet or go uber cheap for $45? Looks like might even be some https://www.ebay.com/itm/88-00-CIVIC-LX-DX-EX-COILOVER-CONVERSION-LOWERING-SLEEVES-SET-PURPLE-SPRING-SET-/371010978804?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ACRX&hash=item5661fa43f4 on fleabay...
$40 Bumpstops - Going with cheapest Acura 51722-SE0-003 (~$10/ea for the MTC 9049 version) cut down to 36mm?
$18 Top Isolators - ES 9.6103G/R (noted as optional but potential NVH reduction seems like worth the small investment?)
$0 No bearing plates cuz cheapskate
$0 Top bushings/hat - stock NA cuz cheapskate
That list look ok or am I overlooking something? Wanted to confirm the acceptable nature of using 97R shocks before I weigh building this set for $180 vs. living with old OEM crap until I sell it.. if it'll work, it's probably worth the investment of time and $...
Wallyman
Are 97 R Billies worth using if you got them for nothing? The goal being to improve a bone stock 92 (probably on original 67K mile suspension) with anything on the dirt cheap since I'm likely going to flip the car in the next 6 months and I don't want to spend any money on it. It'll never see a track unless I drive past one, but on the street I will throw it around like the cheap flip car it is so better than 25 year old mush would be nice. I know I have a few 2.5" springs laying around in the 6-7" and 200-400 lb range from playing with the GC setup on another car, so I count them as 'free' for purposes of justification.. Thinking something 350ish/275ish is where it will land.
So, parts would be:
$0 97R Billies
$0 Springs - whatever I have that's 7" and near 350/275 or QA1's if I have to buy
$64 + $55 Sleeves & collars - All Star 64132 + 64180 (via Summit) looks to be a good bet or go uber cheap for $45? Looks like might even be some https://www.ebay.com/itm/88-00-CIVIC-LX-DX-EX-COILOVER-CONVERSION-LOWERING-SLEEVES-SET-PURPLE-SPRING-SET-/371010978804?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&fits=Model%3ACRX&hash=item5661fa43f4 on fleabay...
$40 Bumpstops - Going with cheapest Acura 51722-SE0-003 (~$10/ea for the MTC 9049 version) cut down to 36mm?
$18 Top Isolators - ES 9.6103G/R (noted as optional but potential NVH reduction seems like worth the small investment?)
$0 No bearing plates cuz cheapskate
$0 Top bushings/hat - stock NA cuz cheapskate
That list look ok or am I overlooking something? Wanted to confirm the acceptable nature of using 97R shocks before I weigh building this set for $180 vs. living with old OEM crap until I sell it.. if it'll work, it's probably worth the investment of time and $...
Wallyman
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07-25-2018, 04:44 PM
#1526
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: San Diego
Posts: 557
Total Cats: 54
Just get new ones. 97 was 30 years ago, do you really think they will be anywhere close to original performance. If it is for the flip - then maybe, but why bother? It won't increase the price significantly.
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07-25-2018, 09:47 PM
#1527
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 85
Total Cats: 4
They are like driving on marshmallows.The question remains tho, can it be done with this particular shock?
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07-26-2018, 05:43 PM
#1528
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2016
Location: San Diego
Posts: 557
Total Cats: 54
LOL, I've failed at arithmetic, not the first time either.
Yes, it can. But using NA shocks means using NA hats or special hardware with NB hats. You would probably want extended hats all around though and that's more $.
Yes, it can. But using NA shocks means using NA hats or special hardware with NB hats. You would probably want extended hats all around though and that's more $.
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07-26-2018, 10:41 PM
#1529
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 85
Total Cats: 4
My goals are a bit off from the typical person here: I'm not trying to build a kickass Bille-based coilover setup for the price of your average OTS entry level system to outperform them by leaps and bounds on my car I love and drive a lot (which is what I gather most of you are doing).. I'm trying to take a 1/10 stock suspension on a flip car and for roughly the same investment as replacement stock shocks, move it to like 3,4,5/10 so I hate it less for the next 3 months while I drive it because a) I don't need 8-9/10 performance on this car, and b) any money spent in changing the suspension is probably a 20-40% return when I dump the car so spending 600+ isn't a smart investment since the car is not one I intend on keeping and c) I like fiddling with things to a point. Even replacing the stock shocks is probably a waste since anyone buying it will likely put on something they prefer anyhow.
So, if the list of parts above is going to be **** because they are specifically NA Billie shocks (regardless of age and current quality), or because they aren't using on NB style hats (or custom taller yet) and I'll be riding bump stops all day, or for some other reason.. then maybe it's not an improvement. But if it'll work for a spirited bone stock street driven car, make a noticeable improvement over worn craptastic stock, and I can do it for <$200 I'm in. I just wasn't sure if using the (assumed shorter stroke) NA shock meant fail from minute one, or meant it could work but only if I do custom extended hats be it NB or higher... That was the piece I was trying to determine.
I kinda feel like I ought to try it using the cheapo Rev9 stuff to keep my investment at rock bottom, and knowing I'm running on all season tires on the street and really won't be pushing the suspension anywhere as hard as you guys... but part of me says "stop trying to improve this car and work on the cars you actually care about"
I got ahold of the shocks today, need to clean them up and see if they are even good anymore.. hell, they could very well all be shot...
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07-26-2018, 10:50 PM
#1530
In keeping with cheap, I have the NA hats and can reuse them. Ride height won't be the weeds.. 12.5"+.. so downside of NA hats is what? I'll be more likely to be into the bump stops, since stroke is shorter, right? Harsher at the extremes? So options are a lot more $ if I convert to off the shelf NB/extended hats or I make custom with some pipe and flat stock (not impossible but certainly a crapton more effort that I was hoping to commit to).
My goals are a bit off from the typical person here: I'm not trying to build a kickass Bille-based coilover setup for the price of your average OTS entry level system to outperform them by leaps and bounds on my car I love and drive a lot (which is what I gather most of you are doing).. I'm trying to take a 1/10 stock suspension on a flip car and for roughly the same investment as replacement stock shocks, move it to like 3,4,5/10 so I hate it less for the next 3 months while I drive it because a) I don't need 8-9/10 performance on this car, and b) any money spent in changing the suspension is probably a 20-40% return when I dump the car so spending 600+ isn't a smart investment since the car is not one I intend on keeping and c) I like fiddling with things to a point. Even replacing the stock shocks is probably a waste since anyone buying it will likely put on something they prefer anyhow.
So, if the list of parts above is going to be **** because they are specifically NA Billie shocks (regardless of age and current quality), or because they aren't using on NB style hats (or custom taller yet) and I'll be riding bump stops all day, or for some other reason.. then maybe it's not an improvement. But if it'll work for a spirited bone stock street driven car, make a noticeable improvement over worn craptastic stock, and I can do it for <$200 I'm in. I just wasn't sure if using the (assumed shorter stroke) NA shock meant fail from minute one, or meant it could work but only if I do custom extended hats be it NB or higher... That was the piece I was trying to determine.
I kinda feel like I ought to try it using the cheapo Rev9 stuff to keep my investment at rock bottom, and knowing I'm running on all season tires on the street and really won't be pushing the suspension anywhere as hard as you guys... but part of me says "stop trying to improve this car and work on the cars you actually care about"
I got ahold of the shocks today, need to clean them up and see if they are even good anymore.. hell, they could very well all be shot...
My goals are a bit off from the typical person here: I'm not trying to build a kickass Bille-based coilover setup for the price of your average OTS entry level system to outperform them by leaps and bounds on my car I love and drive a lot (which is what I gather most of you are doing).. I'm trying to take a 1/10 stock suspension on a flip car and for roughly the same investment as replacement stock shocks, move it to like 3,4,5/10 so I hate it less for the next 3 months while I drive it because a) I don't need 8-9/10 performance on this car, and b) any money spent in changing the suspension is probably a 20-40% return when I dump the car so spending 600+ isn't a smart investment since the car is not one I intend on keeping and c) I like fiddling with things to a point. Even replacing the stock shocks is probably a waste since anyone buying it will likely put on something they prefer anyhow.
So, if the list of parts above is going to be **** because they are specifically NA Billie shocks (regardless of age and current quality), or because they aren't using on NB style hats (or custom taller yet) and I'll be riding bump stops all day, or for some other reason.. then maybe it's not an improvement. But if it'll work for a spirited bone stock street driven car, make a noticeable improvement over worn craptastic stock, and I can do it for <$200 I'm in. I just wasn't sure if using the (assumed shorter stroke) NA shock meant fail from minute one, or meant it could work but only if I do custom extended hats be it NB or higher... That was the piece I was trying to determine.
I kinda feel like I ought to try it using the cheapo Rev9 stuff to keep my investment at rock bottom, and knowing I'm running on all season tires on the street and really won't be pushing the suspension anywhere as hard as you guys... but part of me says "stop trying to improve this car and work on the cars you actually care about"
I got ahold of the shocks today, need to clean them up and see if they are even good anymore.. hell, they could very well all be shot...
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07-27-2018, 09:38 AM
#1533
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 85
Total Cats: 4
Inventory:
7" 250
7" 300
7" 335
8" 200
8" 330
8" 450
So I could run a 7" 335 F / 8" 200 R pansy setup for free.. or buy a set of fronts and run something like a 7" 450 F/ 8" 330 R.. or stay free and go 8" 450/ 8" 330... maybe that's the answer.....
So for just over a hundo ($38-54 for the coilovers, $40 for bumpstops, $18 for isolators and reuse all the other crap) I can build a pansy 330/200 setup. A better 450/330 set would run me $70-80 more (or is it $40? See question below!) or maybe a 450/330 setup if 8" isn't ridiculously high... lowering ride height is less important to me than improved performance, so if 8" keeps me at stock height but works.. good 'nuff for this application. At these prices that's an upgrade I can get behind on a flipper car as long as it works!
Couple last questions (I hope):
eBay sleeves - Civic for $38 or Miata for $52? Does the Miata set give you something for the extra $14 (like usable springs in my scenario)?
Related: You post #24 fleabay set you called out as 450/325, where did you come up with those numbers? The listing or did you measure and calc it? Honestly, that's a perfect solution for my needs..
Side question: In true cheapskate fashion, could I grab a single 14" 240lb spring that I found for $30 and hack in in half for a pair of 7" 480lb-ers? Math says yes, but I'd have one factory flat end and one hacked tail. My gut says that's maybe taking cheap *** too far and will make life miserable.. concur? I suppose I could really get silly and heat the tail and bend/beat it over flat-ish.. not exactly looking for perfection, just reliable function
Thanks to you all for the info so far, I know this is kind of an odd duck for the intended thread goal but the collective knowledge on building a set from these parts is pretty extensive here. So Thanks!
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07-27-2018, 09:49 AM
#1534
You're kindof in a territory that nobody here has a ton of real world experience with, because to say it's sub-par/not-ideal would be an understatement.
All i can say is give it a shot and mess around.
Ebay sleeves are ebay sleeves. All of them will probably end up tossing your circlips and collapsing at some point because they don't engage/slide over the circlips like they should.
All i can say is give it a shot and mess around.
Ebay sleeves are ebay sleeves. All of them will probably end up tossing your circlips and collapsing at some point because they don't engage/slide over the circlips like they should.
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07-27-2018, 09:53 AM
#1535
Moderator
iTrader: (12)
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, Florida
Posts: 20,656
Total Cats: 3,011
I've run an 8-inch 450 in the front before and it is possible to get a decent ride height with it all the way down. so I would choose that last option and see how it works for you.
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07-27-2018, 11:39 AM
#1536
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 85
Total Cats: 4
Not the first time I've heard that. But the application doesn't warrant anything better, and I like to dick around with stuff.
So pay now for Allstars or pay later.. got it.
Sixshooter - was that on stock circlip height? If so, that'd be worth trying for zero dollars.
But the application doesn't warrant anything better, and I like to dick around with stuff.
Ebay sleeves are ebay sleeves. All of them will probably end up tossing your circlips and collapsing at some point because they don't engage/slide over the circlips like they should.
Sixshooter - was that on stock circlip height? If so, that'd be worth trying for zero dollars.
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07-27-2018, 08:10 PM
#1539
The MSM bilsteins are pretty much done. Need to add too bushing to the rears but that’s it. Konis in the background. Both sets were built thanks to the help and guidance of this thread. Thanks to everyone who has contributed to this megathread.
MSM-500/350 hyperco 7”L 2.5 D
Two-Six Motorsports extended top-hats w/poly isolators glued
Stock bushings
Speesthane bumpstops-36mm F/R
All-Star Coil over sleeves
Koni-450/325 hyperco 7”L 2.25”D
Stock tophats in front. Maruha extended in rear.
949 Racing 2.25” spring adapters
Stock bushings
FCM 36mm koni bumpstop kit
Koni Coil over sleeves cut to length
Both sets used an energy suspension washer for the bumpstop washer. They need to be drilled out but are very stout. For the MSM I also put a 3/8” 1.5D washer in addition to the ES washer as the speedthane bumpstop diameter was bigger than the FCM. Top bushing washer is a 3/8” 2”D washer.
Again, thanks for the help y’all.
MSM-500/350 hyperco 7”L 2.5 D
Two-Six Motorsports extended top-hats w/poly isolators glued
Stock bushings
Speesthane bumpstops-36mm F/R
All-Star Coil over sleeves
Koni-450/325 hyperco 7”L 2.25”D
Stock tophats in front. Maruha extended in rear.
949 Racing 2.25” spring adapters
Stock bushings
FCM 36mm koni bumpstop kit
Koni Coil over sleeves cut to length
Both sets used an energy suspension washer for the bumpstop washer. They need to be drilled out but are very stout. For the MSM I also put a 3/8” 1.5D washer in addition to the ES washer as the speedthane bumpstop diameter was bigger than the FCM. Top bushing washer is a 3/8” 2”D washer.
Again, thanks for the help y’all.
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07-27-2018, 11:10 PM
#1540
Junior Member
Join Date: Sep 2007
Posts: 85
Total Cats: 4
How to do super cheapskate
Just ordered my parts..here's what I'm going with:
97 R Billies (in hand already)
8x450 front (in hand already)
8x330 rear (in hand already)
Allstar ALL64162 5" Long Aluminum Replacement Coil-Over Kit Sleeve for Bilstein/Penske Shocks
Allstar ALL64180 Coil-Over Replacement Adjusting Nut
Energy Suspension Coil Spring Isolators 9-6103G
Energy Suspension Sway Bar End Link Set 9-8105G (used as top hat bushings)
Energy Suspension Bump Stop 16-9101G (option #1)
Energy Suspension Bump Stop 9-6111G (option #2)
All told I'm in for < $160 since springs I had and shocks were free. And I just remembered I have a set of the purple FM rear top hats a buddy gave me for helping him with some work, those get in the mix too.. also zero dollars.
I'll report back how this comes together and if it was a waste of time or actually pans out the way I hoped... Thanks everyone!
97 R Billies (in hand already)
8x450 front (in hand already)
8x330 rear (in hand already)
Allstar ALL64162 5" Long Aluminum Replacement Coil-Over Kit Sleeve for Bilstein/Penske Shocks
Allstar ALL64180 Coil-Over Replacement Adjusting Nut
Energy Suspension Coil Spring Isolators 9-6103G
Energy Suspension Sway Bar End Link Set 9-8105G (used as top hat bushings)
Energy Suspension Bump Stop 16-9101G (option #1)
Energy Suspension Bump Stop 9-6111G (option #2)
All told I'm in for < $160 since springs I had and shocks were free. And I just remembered I have a set of the purple FM rear top hats a buddy gave me for helping him with some work, those get in the mix too.. also zero dollars.
I'll report back how this comes together and if it was a waste of time or actually pans out the way I hoped... Thanks everyone!
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