concealer404

iTrader: (3)

"Need," nobody.

"Want," some of us.

Cheapest way is Hyperco CS100s and either Wide Open designs sliders (which will force you to run them at top of stack, up to you if this bothers you) or Eibach sliders. (Cost more, can run on bottom of stack.)

jonshonda

Is the better ride quality worth the added costs? What is a "slider"

I have tallied up the parts needed: new billy B8s, Swift springs (with helpers would I still do 6"front 7" rear?), (4) ISC top hats, FCM complete coilover bushing kit, and sleeves and am right around $1500. I haven't done much in the way of digging deep for the cheapest price...so dont bite my head off. But this sounds like a good setup?

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

It doesn't give better ride quality.

The slider is the spring coupler between main spring and helper spring.

With helpers, you would run 6" front and rear. I'd run 6" front and rear even without, but that becomes an opinion piece rather than maths. I get high enough on 6" springs that i don't see any benefit from 7".

You're overpaying for a bunch of stuff. Get Hypercos for cheaper than Swift. Make your own bumpstops rather than paying Shaikh an 800% upcharge. ISC top hats suck, don't buy those. If you have an NA, get Goodwin or Maruhas. If you have an NB, still consider Goodwins in rear, but they will not work in the front. Maruhas will.

At $1500, Bilsteins are a nonstarter. That's Xidas or FEAL 441+RR territory.

jonshonda

Looking at swifts site they note the helper or assist springs add linear feel to a coilover system that uses springs which aren't linear. The springs I was Looking at were 105lb. I will look into her and hyperco

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

That sounds like word soup.

The coilover springs you're looking at are literally linear rate springs. Not progressive.

imperialgolem

Better to invest in revalving. It would be more efficient regarding to money which you want to spend.

jonshonda

Indeed, but when you pair two different rate linear springs together you can get a progressive effect. Look at baha racing for examples where they might have three different springs per corner to soak up the rough stuff. Xida and fox are both using helper springs too. The ones you linked are more on a tender spring, only effect they might have is holding the spring in place at full droop.

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

That is also the only effect the additional springs on Xidas have. Well that, and acting as spacers at rest to achieve sane ride heights. With the weight of the car on them, they are at block height.

90% of the internet calls zero rate springs "helpers," and more than that, "tenders."

A "progressive" effect isn't something i'd consider "desirable."

But that's the beauty of this setup. Once you get to these questions, you get to do what you want. Doesn't matter what i think. Let us know what you put together and how you like it.

acedeuce802

iTrader: (1)

2 linear springs together in series is still a linear spring. It changes rate when one of the springs blocks up and is no longer a spring, so there's two spring rates that are switched between when the lighter of the two is fully compressed. Helper springs are light enough that they are fully compressed well before ride height. So you are always in the linear range of the main spring, and the helper spring only comes into play near full droop. On those Baja shocks, you'll notice that the second/third springs aren't fully compressed when the vehicle is on the ground.

Rexican

Hi All,

Thanks for all the great info throughout this thread. I have a 2002 SE with 101K miles on the original suspension. I'm looking for a Bilstein setup to get fairly lowered look while improving handling. Hoping to be in the 4.5- 5.25 pinch weld height. Here is my shopping list so far.

4 x Allstar Performance ALL64162 Sleeves
4 x Allstar Performance ALL64180 Perchs
2 x Pair of Energy Spring Isolators
4 x Integra Bumpstops cut to length
2 x Bilstein B8 Front
2 x Bilstein B8 Rear
2 x Summit Racing 7" 300lb Spring
2 x Summit Racing 7" 450lb Spring
4 x Maruha extended Tophats


I've seen some people suggest 6" spring vs 7". What is the benefit here? Any drawbacks to the shorter spring?

What are peoples thoughts on 2" ISC top hats vs the Maruha top hats?

Lastly, Are people using these Sleeve and nut set from Advanced Autosports at 4" so they don't have to cut the Allstar ones to length? I'm just trying to avoid rubbing of the sleeve and spring. Thanks for your help everyone. Really looking forward to getting these on the car.

bahurd

iTrader: (8)

The last set I built used the Advanced Autosports sleeves because it saves the cutting.

With those rates, and you wanting to get on the low end of the height I'd use the 7" springs to make sure you don't get into a spring bind situation.

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

Miatas physically do not have enough upward travel at any ride height you could possibly achieve with these setups to bind a 6" spring.

wackbards

iTrader: (2)

I got the longer sleeves and cut 2 down because they were a lot cheaper.

wackbards

iTrader: (2)

I also recommend you get some grade 8 washers. My original HDR washers didn't hold up.

mrmonk7663

iTrader: (9)

If you use msm bilsteins (silver ones) use 6” springs. 7” springs will not get you low at all. Yellow bilsteins are different and 7” works fine.

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

This. The yellow ones will be good with the 7's and those rates. They will also ensure full droop travel.

I have the ISC hats and they are not as pretty but are functional. They do allow greater bump travel than some others if needed.

concealer404

iTrader: (3)

Droop travel isn't determined by sprangs, tho.

Believe it was also shown earlier in this thread that dimensionally, MSM billies = yeller billies.

SeanBonham

Had my NA up on jack stands for a week, so I finally got around to swapping in the MSM shocks in place of the NA Bilsteins along with TSM tops hats in place of the NB top hats. It's a 100% improvement, so so so much more comfortable. I couldn't believe it. I also installed FM frame rails and a FM front sway bar / end links at the same time. Feels great!


Untitled by seanbonham69, on Flickr

Cut the sleeves as far down as I could while keeping the top inner centering ring. Drilled the top hats out to fit the stock NB bushings. Turned down the large NB bushing to fit inside the top hat, normal upper bushing installed. 450 /300 springs. No noises thus far... Ride height is about 5"f 5.25"r pinch weld.

DNMakinson

iTrader: (3)

@concealer404 will the Maruha top hats work with the recessed nuts that are on the FCM shock assemblies I have? For the rear? Would I only need to bore out the center hole to pass the nut? Is there a better approach? Do I even need new top hats if I stay high? I'm thinking, why not, insurance for travel.

This is non-standard, but the path I'm on is:
Move the 325# to rear with use of Allstar sleeves to get to 5.75 height, if desired (sleeves are mounted very low on these shocks).
New 425# for the front.
Eibach 1 1/16 solid front bar. (Nearly as stiff as the 1.25 hollow RB, more weight, less $$$).

I did not contact FCM, but am going on the assumption that I can add 100#/in to the front and 50 #/in to the rear and the shocks can handle it.

DNM

sixshooter

iTrader: (12)

Sounds like a plan