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Old 04-27-2011, 08:59 PM   #41
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Whatever happen to Hi Im Simon dude? I was going to ask him about that old clutch group buy he did, he was able to get some people on it even after it was done and he also was able to get deals either way.

BG tuned at 26 psi with a xt 6-puck would maybe last 15k miles lol. Randy, I'll have to let you drive the 97, it has act's 6-puck sprung good for 350 ft-lbs iirc
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Old 04-27-2011, 09:01 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I had an ACT HD/6puck w/ stock FW, put 30k street miles on it before jumping to the twin. I've driven an ACT XT 6-puck with a LWFW and it was nearly undriveable IMO - the easiest way to start that car was to just dump the clutch from 2.5k and let the rears spin a couple times.

The engagement on the 6-puck is sharper, but over a longer pedal travel area - the twin is a smoother engagement when it happens, but the pedal travel is SUPER short, which makes it a little tough to drive smoothly on the street. I can still slip the cerametallic discs up onto a trailer without an issue, though.

I've driven an organic 7.25" single disc - totally streetable. I bet the 7.25 organic twin is just as easy.

Bah I have the old FM 8lb flywheel and I have no problem driving it around Baltimore or wherever. I love driving my car to go get groceries. Again, you just slip the clutch a bunch when moving from a stop and all is right with the world.

Viirii just buy the ACT 6 sprung with xtreme pressure plate and be done for now. It's cheap and a good source is carolinaclutch.com It will hold your torque and you will get used to the pedal weight.
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:38 AM   #43
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you cant really slip a pucked clutch...
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:46 AM   #44
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Flier, I will have to take you up on that before I make my decision. Thanks!

I hear so much negative about daily driving on pucked discs, but having never driven one... Even my 475 RWHP and 475 Tq Fiero had an organic disc.
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Old 04-28-2011, 09:55 AM   #45
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Like I said, I had a pucked disc and liked it (1.6L ACT HD 6-puck). But I DD the car in a lot of stop and go traffic. Hell my drive to work was only 8 miles, but it got to the point of being a nuisense.

When my transmission started going south I egerly shopped around for a new clutch as well to replace it. Now I'm on a 1.8L ACT HD with a street disc and couldn't be happier. It still holds my power and drives like normal. Having driven cars with both the FMI and FMII clutches, I'd suggest going that way if they can hold your power. Evne the FMII feels like a stock clutch, but it can just happen to hold a ton of power.

But you walk a thin line with a car with so much power and wanting it to be a comfortable DD as well.

What rear end do you have? Swapping the rx7 clutch lsd for a torsen made a huge difference in the ease of the pucked clutch...but it wasn't enough to keep me from swapping it.

But dont get me wrong either, you might not find any problem with it, but you do have to relearn how to drive the car with it....youll find yourself blipping up the rpms then pretty much letting the clutch go.
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:02 AM   #46
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I have the Torsen in mine.
Sounds like it drives like my Harley did. You always had blip the throttle on it to shift gears. Otherwise you would kill the clutch or the motor one.
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:17 AM   #47
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Quote:
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you cant really slip a pucked clutch...
Sprung pucked clutch?

I slip mine all the time, or at least I think I do. shrug
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Old 04-28-2011, 10:32 AM   #48
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Originally Posted by Faeflora View Post
Sprung pucked clutch?

I slip mine all the time, or at least I think I do. shrug
My Spec S3 isn't bad, I wouldn't daily drive it, but it's not bad. It slips fine in first gear if I rev it once before engagement on the super-short 1st gear; if I start in second it chatters BAD.

The FM S2 clutch is supposed to be great but I'm weary of non-metal clutches in track cars. My S3 has about 40-hours of track time on it and I have no clue how much it's worn so I have a "new clutch" in the back of my head. I'll either go with the 949 twin organic or the FM S2 depending upon who has the best return policy if it slips too soon or overheats. If no one offers me a realistic return policy, I'll do another Spec S3.
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Old 04-28-2011, 11:22 AM   #49
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Originally Posted by viriiguy View Post
I have the Torsen in mine.
Sounds like it drives like my Harley did. You always had blip the throttle on it to shift gears. Otherwise you would kill the clutch or the motor one.

You won't kill anything, the car will just shudder/hop on a poor engagement.


Fae, the whole point of a pucked disc is to focus the clamping area. the less pucks, the better torque capacitiy. But with that the engagement becomes harsher and harsher. As the diaphragm is released, the material grabs hard to the flywheel, since the load is more focused. I guess you can sorta slip them into gear...I could engage it like stock, it just requires a lot more rpms to do so. It wil lbecomer harder with a 4 puck and even more so with a 3 puck. Pucked discs usually are made of more agressive material as well, so they last longer, but again grab quicker.

sprung vs. unsprung is how the shock/load gets transfered to the draintrain or absorbed in the springs. Think of getting hit in the face with something using a boxing glove or bare fist. This can change the engagement feel a little, but I doubt it's that noticeable. Obviously the bare fist to your face is more likely to cause breakage.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:00 PM   #50
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
You won't kill anything, the car will just shudder/hop on a poor engagement.
Well Hell!!! I have had that problem since the day I got this car It has been a tricky little bitch to get engaged properly from time to time.

Mind you, I have no idea how bad of a shape the clutch was in when I got her. Just knew it would have to be replaced fairly soon.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:10 PM   #51
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My ACT sprung 6puck w/ xtreme pp was a love/hate relationship. Just like Brainey and others have said: its possible to drive normally most of the time but definitely requires effort on your part. As soon as you stop paying attention and drive it like a regular car you'll start chattering/bucking/and looking like a jackass.

I'd also like to add that on my car engagement would greatly change with how hot the clutch got. Usually 1st 20-30 minutes of driving it there were no problems. Very smooth and not much effort required to keep it happy. After that or in stop/go on a very hot day it would just get grabbier and grabbier til it became a switch and anything but a high rpm engegement resulted in bucking. When I wanted to drive the car hard though it was absolutely great for that.

I'd say BY FAR the worst part was backing up. It would chatter and be so sensitive it was insane.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:22 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
sprung vs. unsprung is how the shock/load gets transfered to the draintrain or absorbed in the springs. Think of getting hit in the face with something using a boxing glove or bare fist. This can change the engagement feel a little, but I doubt it's that noticeable. Obviously the bare fist to your face is more likely to cause breakage.
I have serious doubts about the nature of sprung hubs in most applications.

the springs are so small and light that there's probably just a *slight* delay in the shock load. once they coil bind, blammo.

they may help a little, but having run solid hub (puck and organic) disks for half my car's life, the driveability difference is not noticeable. also I am still on my original 5 speed after 100k miles.
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Old 04-28-2011, 01:24 PM   #53
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and i said that. you probably cant even notice.
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:02 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I'll either go with the 949 twin organic or the FM S2 depending upon who has the best return policy if it slips too soon or overheats.
We have customers racing (not HPDE), at 300 & 400 ft/lbs on our twin organic with no wear, slippage or overheating (blown 6 speeds though). If they'll hold up to sprints and multi-hour enduros with big power, I think they'll survive 20 minute HPDE sessions with 250 ft/lbs just fine. Plenty of them on the street too.

Make it slip and you will be the first.
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Old 04-28-2011, 03:07 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
We have customers racing (not HPDE), at 300 & 400 ft/lbs on our twin organic with no wear, slippage or overheating (blown 6 speeds though). If they'll hold up to sprints and multi-hour enduros with big power, I think they'll survive 20 minute HPDE sessions with 250 ft/lbs just fine. Plenty of them on the street too.

Make it slip and you will be the first.
Excuse me while I shake the money tree.

Edit: I don't really appreciate you holding my checking-account hostage. Damn you, your clutch, and your diff. I'm about to go race all weekend in TT and lug the 40lb clutch parts on downshifts. I'd like to buy a conversion van to tow with, but instead I have a lust for you parts.

Edit^2: update your clutch description:
# 250 ft-lbs Organic, single disc : N/A track cars, low boost F/I track cars 11.5 lbs
# 400 ft-lbs Organic twin disc : N/A autocrossers, N/A or F/I street cars 14.0 lbs
# 400 ft-lbs Ceramic, single disc : Drift- F/I track cars, F/I drag 13.7 lbs
# 600 ft-lbs Ceramic, twin disc : any Miata build that defies logic 15.6 lbs
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Old 04-28-2011, 04:58 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
My ACT sprung 6puck w/ xtreme pp was a love/hate relationship. Just like Brainey and others have said: its possible to drive normally most of the time but definitely requires effort on your part. As soon as you stop paying attention and drive it like a regular car you'll start chattering/bucking/and looking like a jackass.

I'd also like to add that on my car engagement would greatly change with how hot the clutch got. Usually 1st 20-30 minutes of driving it there were no problems. Very smooth and not much effort required to keep it happy. After that or in stop/go on a very hot day it would just get grabbier and grabbier til it became a switch and anything but a high rpm engegement resulted in bucking. When I wanted to drive the car hard though it was absolutely great for that.

I'd say BY FAR the worst part was backing up. It would chatter and be so sensitive it was insane.
3rd'd... ceramic material is rather unpleasant from a stop. Reverse is almost guaranteed to buck and make you look like an idiot thats never driven a stick before... I fear the day when I get caught in a traffic jam.
Does anyone else's ceramic clutch 'squeak' when slipping it? 'Squeak' might not be the best description, almost sounds like brakes on a bicycle or something.... I've just been assuming its normal.

I have the f1 stage 3 w/ chromolly flywheel (edit: with oem mazda TO bearing)... being cheap could easily end my 5 speed given we autoX on 275 a6s. Picked up a 6 speed recently though.
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Old 04-28-2011, 05:12 PM   #57
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Mine makes a cute little squeak noise.
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Old 04-28-2011, 07:50 PM   #58
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If you get caught in traffic jams daily a pucked clutch is probably not for you. Other than that I liked the crisp shifts of a pucked clutch/light weight flywheel combo.
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Old 04-28-2011, 08:26 PM   #59
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I try NOT to get caught in them, but I do live in the city and it does happen.
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Old 04-29-2011, 09:54 AM   #60
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I have a 6-puck Comp. Clutch and it's not all that bad. Took me a few weeks to learn how to keep shudder to a minimum and going with stiffer engine mounts helped significantly. OP- Do yourself a flavor and get some good engine mounts when you upgrade the clutch....chances are yours are toast by now anyway.
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