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Old 06-11-2008, 11:49 AM   #41
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I would rather buy 100K mile used OEM bilsteins than new Illuminas, I just don't like them...

For what Sam seems to want, he'd be best of on the Bilsteins and slightly lower slightly stiffer springs. He could do it for less than $250 i bet, if he bought smart and cheap, he jew, so no worries there.
I cant have the car lower, thats my #1 priority. Brooklyn streets are OK, but in the city lower will have me shedding parts because the roads are so bad.

Can I get stiffer springs, but not lose ride height? Why cant I reuse my stock shocks?

I don't have a spring compressor and honestly don't want to **** with one, I have heard some bad stories. Id rather just buy a set and install it.

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Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
For 90% street driving and nothing serious, just get the factory Bilsteins used from someone for sub $200 and get some FM springs, and get the RB front sway bar and call it a day.

*ninja edit* you need some real rubber as well, no matter how responsive your suspension is, how stiff or soft, if your tires suck *****, so will your handling...get real rubber, I know it's expensive, but it's what makes the biggest difference.
Yea, I think my rubber is the biggest problem. I am running on General Exclaim UHP's. When I was buying these it was either these or Hankook RS2's. I skimped on 40 bucks like an idiot and got the cheaper Generals, BIG MISTAKE.

Car felt boaty right from the start. They are very grippy, ride very well, and are great for all types of weather. Drove in the winter with them fine. But they have very soft sidewalls and cornering is disconcerting, the car turns and turns well but it feels like its gonna let go at any moment.

I think I will pick up those RS2's first before anything suspension related.

Last edited by Saml01; 06-11-2008 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 06-11-2008, 11:54 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
konis out of the box aren't very nice. something interesting would be tein basic or illuminas and fm springs or something to that effect.
Why FM springs with Tien Basic? Why not Tien springs?

I'm just curious how you guys determine the appropriate combination.

I want to improve the base handling of the car without spending loads of money on suspension parts. I have the money dont get me wrong, but the trick is spending on what I need not on what I dont need.

How about the FM 2.5 kit? Seems affordable, price isnt bad for what you get and I like the idea of added travel in the back because I hit the stops most often in the back.

Last edited by Saml01; 06-11-2008 at 12:11 PM.
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:11 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
konis out of the box aren't very nice. something interesting would be tein basic or illuminas and fm springs or something to that effect.
Koni sport or race? I like the race a lot--tried them on an NA and a NB.

Dan's GC coilovers are also pretty freakin sweet.
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:25 PM   #44
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Koni sport or race? I like the race a lot--tried them on an NA and a NB.

Dan's GC coilovers are also pretty freakin sweet.
yellows. whatever the plain jane adjustable ones are. hate em. hated em on my e30.

oh and sam, tein basic come with springs.
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Old 06-11-2008, 12:56 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Why FM springs with Tien Basic? Why not Tien springs?

I'm just curious how you guys determine the appropriate combination.
Find the correct size, then the spring rate should be determined using a mix of the fatcat spreadsheet and alot of testing.

In the most basic way of looking at it, shocks should be chosen or valved based on the spring rate.


Quote:
I want to improve the base handling of the car without spending loads of money on suspension parts. I have the money dont get me wrong, but the trick is spending on what I need not on what I dont need.

How about the FM 2.5 kit? Seems affordable, price isnt bad for what you get and I like the idea of added travel in the back because I hit the stops most often in the back.

Shocks and good rear mounts will give you the biggest day to day improvement.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:04 PM   #46
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
yellows. whatever the plain jane adjustable ones are. hate em. hated em on my e30.

oh and sam, tein basic come with springs.
Oh, thats not a bad price at 900.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:13 PM   #47
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Sam-you can get stiffer springs and not lower the car, I think the FM springs lower it just a bit though, nothing major. That's why I recomend the OEM Bilsteins for you, they are stiffer, smooth, last forever, and are pretty cheap used. You can not beat them.

Y8S-I have the Koni Yellows, and E30 might be a different scenario, I absolutely love mine, they feel smoother than my old R package suspension, and perform way better, out of the box, not re-valved. I do plan to eventually re-valve the front only because now I want even stiffer springs up front, I am at 650 now, I want north of 750lbs/in.
My friend just got koni race/gc for his 370whp MKVI Golf and loves them to death, very pleased with them, ride and handling. Another friend has the koni yellows on his 450 whp E36 M3, very happy with them, but he does not push the car much at all, so he may not be the best example.
IMO Koni Yellows with softer springs sub 350 make for a very civil ride.

On auto-x's, with this set up, I am usually the fastest street tire Miata, and usually I am faster than some of the Hoosier A6 Miatas. I am very happy with my suspension, but I do feel the need for some R compound as I feel I am at the limits of street tires right now.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:18 PM   #48
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http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bilst...spagenameZWDVW
you may want to look into this

btw-you dont need a spring compressor when changing springs on miata shocks. I have never used one, well, i have, but this was before i learned to do it the rigth/easy way. Just lay the shock on the side, step on it with one foot, use air gun to slowly take the bolt of, and you're done. Then just reassemble.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:25 PM   #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Bilst...spagenameZWDVW
you may want to look into this

btw-you dont need a spring compressor when changing springs on miata shocks. I have never used one, well, i have, but this was before i learned to do it the rigth/easy way. Just lay the shock on the side, step on it with one foot, use air gun to slowly take the bolt of, and you're done. Then just reassemble.


Keep in mind that when it breaks loose it will throw the air gun up. I've shot shocks halfway across the shop floor before.
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Old 06-11-2008, 01:32 PM   #50
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It has yet to happen to me, but I can imagine how it could lol
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:04 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by Zabac View Post
Sam-you can get stiffer springs and not lower the car, I think the FM springs lower it just a bit though, nothing major. That's why I recomend the OEM Bilsteins for you, they are stiffer, smooth, last forever, and are pretty cheap used. You can not beat them.
Im confused. You say OEM bilsteins, what does that mean? To me it means, whats already in the car.

So you're saying just change the shocks basically?
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Old 06-11-2008, 02:34 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Im confused. You say OEM bilsteins, what does that mean? To me it means, whats already in the car.

So you're saying just change the shocks basically?
He means the R-package OEM shocks.
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:03 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
yellows. whatever the plain jane adjustable ones are. hate em. hated em on my e30.

oh and sam, tein basic come with springs.
They're all yellow. The less expensive sports in the miata are IMO pretty friggin nice, but the race are better with stiff springs.

I found Dan's car with sports and gc coilovers to be very nice. I wouldn't mind having his suspension on my car.
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Old 06-11-2008, 03:31 PM   #54
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I thought the race shocks were Silver, unless someone got sports and had them revalved to race spec, then yes, they would be yellow. But i'm pretty sure Koni Race is silver in color.

Sam-some Miatas came with Bilsteins from the factory, your's probably didn't.
R package, LE, and maybe a few more, I am not sure. The ones I link'd in, those are off a NB, which means you are getting the better top hats for more travel at the same time. I would pay as much as $300 for that setup.
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Old 06-11-2008, 04:39 PM   #55
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It pretty much breaks down by price point. How far are you willing to go/spend.

AGX/Ilumina + Lowering springs
Bilstein/Koni + Loweing springs
Bilstein/Koni + Eibach ERS + GC/FCM Sleeves
Bilstein/Koni + Eibach ERS + GC/FCM Sleeves + NB Top Hat mounting solution
Tein Flex
AFCO/Ohlins/FLT-A2/ETC
XIDA <-not out yet.
Penske/any other full blown custom solution.

So basically 500-5000$

I personally went with #4. Lots of people opt for that and then go revalve/shortening, for "extreme" (700+ front) spring rates, but if I was going to do that I would go straight to FLEX.

The above is just the shock, as many others here have mentioned suspension is more then the shock.

Without getting into high dollar custom bits, basically what you want is a tubular front sway, with brace (ala racing beat), adjustable endlinks, and depending on the shape of your stockers, new bushings.

I am of the opinion that if you are going to spend that much money (5k+ on suspension) on a ******* miata of all things, you should have bought a 30k Elise. Without getting into super high dollar custom bits (1000$+ uprights, x$ custom a-arms, etc) a GOOD all around setup should be around 1500-2k. 3k including wheels/tires.

I think the best deal ($/performance ratio) is used flex setup, baring that koni sport + gcc.
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Old 06-11-2008, 04:53 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by reddroptop View Post

I am of the opinion that if you are going to spend that much money (5k+ on suspension) on a ******* miata of all things, you should have bought a 30k Elise. Without getting into super high dollar custom bits (1000$+ uprights, x$ custom a-arms, etc) a GOOD all around setup should be around 1500-2k. 3k including wheels/tires.

I think the best deal ($/performance ratio) is used flex setup, baring that koni sport + gcc.
Oh I agree. I dont want to spend that much on a suspension. Less then 1000 for sure. #4 looks about right as well, mostly because I want more suspension travel. How much does that setup run?

What are the sleeves for?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabac View Post

Sam-some Miatas came with Bilsteins from the factory, your's probably didn't.
R package, LE, and maybe a few more, I am not sure. The ones I link'd in, those are off a NB, which means you are getting the better top hats for more travel at the same time. I would pay as much as $300 for that setup.
Ah I see now. So basically get these bilsteins and the FM springs?

FM springs say they arent made for the stock shock, so i dont know how that will work since technically its an OEM.

----

Just quickly looking up prices. Bilsteins go for 143 a pair(from bilstein.com, im guessing these are same as OEM) so thats x 2 = 286 + 249 for FM springs = 545. Not bad at all.

What would happen if I kept stock sways for the time being and just scavenged for some NB top hats?
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Old 06-11-2008, 05:14 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
Oh I agree. I dont want to spend that much on a suspension. Less then 1000 for sure. #4 looks about right as well, mostly because I want more suspension travel. How much does that setup run?

What are the sleeves for?

Ah I see now. So basically get these bilsteins and the FM springs?

FM springs say they arent made for the stock shock, so i dont know how that will work since technically its an OEM.

----

Just quickly looking up prices. Bilsteins go for 143 a pair(from bilstein.com, im guessing these are same as OEM) so thats x 2 = 286 + 249 for FM springs = 545. Not bad at all.

What would happen if I kept stock sways for the time being and just scavenged for some NB top hats?

The coilover sleeves are for ride height adjustment.

Koni's: ~500
GCC's: ~350
NB Tophat: ~200 from FCM.
FCM bumpstops: ~50

You can't just scavenge the tophats, you need a custom nut. Which either has to be CNC'd or bought as a whole from FCM/other places.

I think the bilsteins from bilstein.com might be the HD's not the OEM R-package ones. Which are a crappier shock.

If you can find a set used, not beat to ****, 93LE/94-97R OEM bilsteins plus the other stuff is a good bet, otherwise go with the new Koni's.

Lots of guys run stock sways, you just don't get the max potential. Depending on spring rates chosen, the car might be a bit tailhappy, which is not what you want with a boosted miata, but that is easily fixed by unbolting the rear sway.

<RANDOM CONJECTURE>
NB Shocks might be the ticket with coilovers as the best $/performance ratio as you can run the tophats without any custom nut bullshit, but I KNOW you can't run stock springs as the car is raised over stock height, and I am not sure how low you can go with coilovers while retaining some travel.
</RANDOM CONJECTURE>

I think if the random conjecture were true, someone would have already figured it out. Then everyone would know about it.
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Old 06-11-2008, 09:25 PM   #58
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to answer some one's question a long time ago, I have FM's new springs, so 318F/233R with kyb shocks. you can find them for a little cheaper on ebay, such as this:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/KYB-A...spagenameZWDVW

then get FM springs and sway bars for $350 total, FCM bump stops/top mounts for around what, $200? haven't seen their site in a while. so whats that, $885? damn I spent a lot on my suspension...but its awesome. you could easily go to les schwab or anywhere else and have them mount your springs on your shocks for real cheap. I got all of mine without a spring compressor except one, and they put that one on for free.
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Old 06-12-2008, 07:11 AM   #59
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sam, I dont think you will have any problems if you lower your car a bit. Mine is about an inch lower than stock, and I have almost no problems EVER, and there are plenty of shitty roads in la. The car is so short that most things do not cause a problem. I almost never have to pull diagonal riced out civic type moves. Very short speed bumps will **** me up though, but only if I get overzealous.
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Old 07-03-2008, 11:24 AM   #60
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Couple of questions.

Could I purchase the Bilstein shocks that come on the NB Sport somewhere online? Anyone know how much they are?

What if I get:

Bilstein shocks
FM Springs
FCM Bumpstops
FM Top hats

Would that be a good upgrade?

Again, the car is 100% street, I just want a bit more feedback. Not concerned about height adjustment, its difficult to get into and out of as it is.

edit: Are the stock top hats reusable?
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