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Old 06-05-2008, 12:27 AM   #1
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Default Bunch of suspension questions.

How is optimal brake balance determined?

What are spring rates, how are they chosen, how are they measured, and what do they control or produce or benefits they offer if they are stiff or unstiff?

What is rebound?

What does adjusting sway bars do?

How are shocks chosen, and why is one superior then another?

How are shocks paired to springs?

Is it possible to have a better shock/coil combination but maintain stock ride height?

How do those electronically adjusted teins work? What type of control do they offer?
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:44 AM   #2
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How is optimal brake balance determined? Basically you want the rear of the car to slow down as fast as the front of the car so it doesn't come around but you don't want it to lock up early.

What are spring rates, how are they chosen, how are they measured, and what do they control or produce or benefits they offer if they are stiff or unstiff? The amount of force it takes to compress the spring(or whatever you are talking about) the distance quoted. So 550lb/in springs for Ground Controls take 550 lbs to compress the spring 1 inch. It takes another 550 lbs to compress it another inch. Obviously the higher the spring rate the less body roll you will experience but higher spring rates load a tire quicker which can cause it to break loose sooner. If you are gonna raise your spring rates or stiffin your sway bars you should make sure you get tires that are up to the task. Flatter corning doesn't always mean better handling. A car with stock suspension running crappy all seasons at the edge of their grip level will be easier to keep from breaking loose than a car with much higher spring rates. Compliance is a good thing when it comes to grip, especially in low traction conditions.

What is rebound? Opposite of compression when talking about a shock/spring

What does adjusting sway bars do? Adjusting endlings allows you to take preload off or put it on the sway to change the handling. Can help get rid of oversteer or understeer. Adjustable sway bars have softer and harder settings. 1 reason is for body roll control. Another is to balance a car's front to rear handling bias to change it's oversteer/understeer characteristics.

How are shocks chosen, and why is one superior then another? Some chose shocks because they have adjustable perches, some choose them for adjustable valving, some choose them because they have better or stronger valving.

How are shocks paired to springs? Shocks should be matched to springs based on their ability to dampen that springs rate. If a shock is too weak it will not be able to control the bouncing motion of the spring, much like a blown shock. If it's too strong you will over work the shocks instead of letting the springs do the work.

Is it possible to have a better shock/coil combination but maintain stock ride height? Yes.

How do those electronically adjusted teins work? What type of control do they offer? who cares, they probably cost a fortune.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:11 AM   #3
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Try reading on:
http://www.corner-carvers.com/
Lots of great info there.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:13 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post

How do those electronically adjusted teins work? What type of control do they offer?
Tein's product page:
http://www.tein.com/products/edfc.html

And a nice article on them:
http://tinyurl.com/6e4f3q

They are little motors atop each perch. Damping control from right inside the car.

Vash-
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:01 AM   #5
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Those were banned from Formula One over 15 years ago. Sad it's taken this long to see them on road cars.
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Old 06-05-2008, 11:56 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vashthestampede View Post
Tein's product page:
http://www.tein.com/products/edfc.html

And a nice article on them:
http://tinyurl.com/6e4f3q

They are little motors atop each perch. Damping control from right inside the car.

Vash-
What is damping control do exactly, give me an example of where I want a lot of damping and very little.
--------------

Thanks for the answers Paul.

What about this. Say I change my shocks and keep my coils or vice versa(obviously to better ones), what happens if I only change one.

What do adjustable perches do?
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:05 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Saml01 View Post
What is damping control do exactly, give me an example of where I want a lot of damping and very little.
I don't know a ton about suspension, but from what I understand;

Damping controls how fast the shock reacts to load. I guess on one side of the spectrum there is damping settings for comfort, then there are settings for control.

I'm sure someone that knows the suspension in and outs will explain better.

EDIT: Just found this on Google. I was curious myself to learn a little more. This site seems to sum up suspension in a whole pretty well. Page two explains damping front to back.

http://www.carbibles.com/suspension_bible.html

Vash-
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Old 06-05-2008, 12:13 PM   #8
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Those were banned from Formula One over 15 years ago. Sad it's taken this long to see them on road cars.
my friends 1990 300zxtt had it! it's 18 yrs. old! also, tein has had the edfc available for years now.
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Old 06-05-2008, 02:22 PM   #9
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my friends 1990 300zxtt had it! it's 18 yrs. old! also, tein has had the edfc available for years now.


My 87 Thunderbird has it.
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:10 PM   #10
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very rarely will you need to change your damping on the fly. trust me, this is coming from a guy WITH the EDFC and I find it unnecessary.

if you were a rally driver you might want to.

basically you can change the firmness of shocks to suit road conditions. rougher roads may require a softer shock to better absorb the road bumps and provide better traction. smoother roads may be better suited to firmer shocks.

really the bottom line of the adjustment is: which is faster? if you have them soft for one lap and hard for one lap, the better setting is the one with the lower lap time.
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Old 06-05-2008, 03:50 PM   #11
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My 87 Thunderbird has it.
my 89 mazda 626 turbo had it boo yah.
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Old 06-05-2008, 04:13 PM   #12
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
very rarely will you need to change your damping on the fly. trust me, this is coming from a guy WITH the EDFC and I find it unnecessary.

if you were a rally driver you might want to.

basically you can change the firmness of shocks to suit road conditions. rougher roads may require a softer shock to better absorb the road bumps and provide better traction. smoother roads may be better suited to firmer shocks.

really the bottom line of the adjustment is: which is faster? if you have them soft for one lap and hard for one lap, the better setting is the one with the lower lap time.
How noticeable is the difference in ride? Say for example I want them soft in the city, and stiffer on the highway.

Would that be worth getting these Teins for this feature alone?

Hypothetically speaking.
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:22 PM   #14
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it's real damn noticable. i run them full soft ALL THE TIME. full hard is ridiculous. so like, smooth road race sure.
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:33 PM   #15
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Quote:
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it's real damn noticable. i run them full soft ALL THE TIME. full hard is ridiculous. so like, smooth road race sure.
Hmm. Something to consider for the future.

Dont IM me Chad, I know what youre gonna say
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:34 PM   #16
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I love these threads. Thank you Sam!

They give me the chance to learn without having to ask stupid questions!

Keep the links coming guys.

Thanks
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Old 06-05-2008, 05:50 PM   #17
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I love these threads. Thank you Sam!

They give me the chance to learn without having to ask stupid questions!

Keep the links coming guys.

Thanks
There is no such thing as a stupid question.

Were you around when I asked all my turbo questions. I thought Braineack was gonna ban me for all the threads I Hijacked.

-------

Heres a stupid question.

What if I wanted to put airbags on my car? Would that offer better or worse handling then a similarly priced(if possible) spring/shock setup?

How about a few examples of situations and type of spring/shock combinations? Say road racing, daily driving, comfort, all around. Not models of springs and shocks, but what spring rates would be ideal for those conditions.

Coming back to how shocks are paired to springs. Paul said its based on the ability of the shock to dampen the spring rate. Does that means shocks come with an operating range? If so, what if the particular spring rate is in the lower or upper operating range of a shock, what happens?

What does a thicker sway bar produce? Do the benefits of thickness diminish after a certain point(shutup pervs)?

Other than pre load and thickness, what else ties into the effectiveness of a sway bar?
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Old 06-05-2008, 06:08 PM   #18
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Here's another question (sorry Sam but it's in the same subject): why does everyone in the Miata community always suggest that the rear sway bar must be taken out when the suspension is changed to a shorter spring based one?
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Old 06-05-2008, 07:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rafa View Post
Here's another question (sorry Sam but it's in the same subject): why does everyone in the Miata community always suggest that the rear sway bar must be taken out when the suspension is changed to a shorter spring based one?
I am not sure this applies to all aftermarket setups. But in my case, with the Tein Basics, I removed the rear swaybar to reduce some of the oversteer created by the relatively stiffer rear springs. It seemed to help.

If you go to Fat Cat Motorsports they have a suspension spreadsheet that calculates the tendency for oversteer/understeer for any configuration of F/R sway bars and spring rates.
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Old 06-05-2008, 08:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZX-Tex View Post
I am not sure this applies to all aftermarket setups. But in my case, with the Tein Basics, I removed the rear swaybar to reduce some of the oversteer created by the relatively stiffer rear springs. It seemed to help.

If you go to Fat Cat Motorsports they have a suspension spreadsheet that calculates the tendency for oversteer/understeer for any configuration of F/R sway bars and spring rates.
Thanks; btw, (my apologies again Sam) I have the tein basics also installed with the FCM bumpstops and I can't get the ones in the back from hitting them every time I hit a pothole no matter what I do.

Any suggestions?

Thanks
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