Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 689246)
Or buy Megans or Stance or BC Racing...whichever is on sale.
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Seriously, the low speed compression needs to come on faster and then drop off past 3.5"/sec, or just below 0.1 meter. The adjusters do almost nothing.
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Originally Posted by hustler
(Post 689256)
STFU, socialist northerner.
VA is the south dawg. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 689245)
next time keep all the compression and rebound colors the same per application.
Originally Posted by modernbeat
(Post 689264)
The adjusters do almost nothing.
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While I don't dogmatically follow anyone's advice, I think Dennis had it right. There are other decent shocks out there now, but low-buck Taiwanese stuff isn't it.
http://farnorthracing.com/autocross_secrets18.html Remember this list: * Bilstein * Penske * Koni * Ohlins * Sachs * Dynamic Suspension Not on this list? Almost certainly crap. (The reason why JRZ and Moton aren't on the "good" list is simple - I never dynoed any. In the absence of any dyno information one way or the other, I choose to remain silent.) Perhaps I should elaborate a little. For a while, I was the shock engineer for a race team, and was designing, building, and rebuilding shock packages for customers. A big part of this service was running customer shocks on the dyno to set a baseline for where they were currently at. I dynoed a couple of hundred shocks, representing the spread of almost every shock brand extant. (All the shock dyno plots on this page came off my dyno.) Amazingly, save those brands mentioned in that earlier list, this was a non-stop parade of horror, including, but not limited to: 1. Adjusters that did absolutely nothing; 2. Adjusters that had more crosstalk effect than they had primary effect (ie, a rebound adjuster where 1 click made a 10% change in rebound and a 30% change in compression); 3. Adjusters that were nonlinear and exponential; 4. Adjusters that peaked in the middle of the adjustment range (in one example, "full hard" was softer than "full soft"); 5. Shimstacks assembled upside-down; 6. Sets of shocks where a front and rear shimstack had been exchanged; 7. Shocks valved with forces that were insane (1600 lbs/in @ 3 in/sec was the record); 8. Shocks that faded so fast (as they warmed up) that no two runs were ever alike; 9. Shocks with adjusters that varied by 10% on the same shock at the same setting, depending on if you got there by going harder or softer; and 10. Shocks that adjusted rebound and compression in lockstep, but had so much compression that backing them down to reasonable levels made rebound way too soft (very common with the Japanese brands like GAB, JIC, Tein, etc) The only shock brands I worked with that actually did what they said they would do were the shocks on that list - and even then, they had their quirks: |
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I plugged the numbers onto a run for Showa OE 1999 front and rears dampers. Note: Lines are drawn by me as a representation of the graph on M.net and are at 25 clicks as that's where is started to make a difference to the stiffness.
Green: Street, Front Orange: Track, Front Blue: The level of damping I'd expect for a 350/250 set-up The important thing here is rate. Bump rate is too flat, and not enough stiffness. Rebound rate is quite stiff, no blow-off whatsoever although I'd like to see a 0-6 in/sec range though. Bump/Rebound ratio is very high. Phil |
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Data going off chart doesn't help....
here: https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...1&d=1297705271 now you can see the blow-off much better than oem or tein. |
I was looking through some old posts, and the dyno plots for the DGRs look an awful lot like the old plots for the fortune-auto coilovers that rspeed introduced a couple years back.
Not averaged though: http://www.fortune-auto.net/Shock%20...ock%20dyno.jpg Anyone else notice that? |
yes, I already noticed that.
they also look a lot like the BC Racing curves, which look a lot like the Stance curves, which look a lot like the Megan curves...which all have the same 30 point adjustments, adjustable height bodies, and spherical lower bearings. FWIW, I've driven on BC Racing coilovers and I'm fairly impressed with the comfort and performance levels out of a sub $1000 coilover. and these were on 10k/8k springs, the ride is a lot more comfortable than my Konis on 400/250# springs. |
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 690262)
they also look a lot like the BC Racing curves, which look a lot like the Stance curves, which look a lot like the Megan curves...which all have the same 30 point adjustments, adjustable height bodies, and spherical lower bearings.
Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 690262)
FWIW, I've driven on BC Racing coilovers and I'm fairly impressed with the comfort and performance levels out of a sub $1000 coilover. and these were on 10k/8k springs, the ride is a lot more comfortable than my Konis on 400/250# springs.
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Let's see how they look and perform and last IF they are in fact different from the generics that keep getting rebranded and internet marketed across the Webz…
I mean…there is more to developing a coilover than deciding on a new color and company name. |
Originally Posted by sjmarcy
(Post 690266)
I mean…there is more to developing a coilover than deciding on a new color and company name.
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Originally Posted by jacob300zx
(Post 690280)
Not in China
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IIRC, you can order custom colored coilovers from Ground Control!
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Originally Posted by Braineack
(Post 690262)
yes, I already noticed that.
they also look a lot like the BC Racing curves, which look a lot like the Stance curves, which look a lot like the Megan curves...which all have the same 30 point adjustments, adjustable height bodies, and spherical lower bearings. FWIW, I've driven on BC Racing coilovers and I'm fairly impressed with the comfort and performance levels out of a sub $1000 coilover. and these were on 10k/8k springs, the ride is a lot more comfortable than my Konis on 400/250# springs. sorry for the rant, point is, you can have a fun time without resorting to $4k coilover's and in-house shock dyno's. |
Originally Posted by spoolin2bars
(Post 690365)
i have some cheap taiwan crap shocks, but they were 6 sec. faster at a track i had run alot in nearly exact same track conditions. and on 9/6k springs...... kyb agx on qa1 350/250 springs.
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Originally Posted by mcarp22
(Post 690372)
I think I've identified why you went 6 seconds faster.
Your track must be a lot different. If I could drop 6 seconds just by changing to cheap china coilovers from kyb agx, I'd be all over it. But I highly doubt it's possible in my case. 6 seconds is huge. |
spoolin2bars speaks the truth.
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What time did he get with just changing the shocks and what is the spec miata record at that track?
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