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Old 02-12-2009, 12:50 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Rumor? Get fucked. I broke one at 219whp/201wtq. Just because you haven't broken one doesn't suddenly make every other case invalid. People routinely break the 5-speed at around 250whp, and sometimes less.

The only rumors are the ones you spread. The 5-speed is not reliable at 350whp - period.
Right. You keep thinking that. Can you find me 6 more cars that have between 200 and 250whp that have broken trannies? I have posted 8 examples that I have PERSONALLY seen. 7 SM-T cars, and one that was a friend's who worked here when I was just a customer. To use your own statement against you, "Just cause YOUR tranny breaks at 219whp/201tq doesn't mean that's the norm, and the 5-spds are gonna break at 250whp." Who are these people who have "routinely" broken their trannies at 250whp? Anyone wanna e-mail Matt? I know he broke his 5-spd before he did his Quaife gearset. What whp level was he at? Well, he never says whp, he always uses tq when discussing his power levels, so someone ask him. I have his email, but if I ask, I know everyone will call BS when I post it up. I'm pretty sure he was over 300tq, but I'm not 100%. So someone, find out, and post your findings.
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Old 02-12-2009, 01:20 AM   #22
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Ill step in. One of my best friends just blew the tranny on his sub 250whp car. Ak47bravo on this forum, he wasnt even beating on the car when it went out, and his car is only around 220-230whp. Maybe less.

I know i dont expect mine to last too long.
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Old 02-12-2009, 01:21 AM   #23
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One:
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR View Post
I recently munched a 5 speed that has been whining for the last 3 years. I'm in the low 200s power wise for the last 3 months, but most of it's life was around 160ish. I prefer 6 pucks and tracked/drifted it at least twice a month.

I haven't taken it apart and probably won't but it got me home sounding like death.
Two:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AbeFM View Post
I've heard 250 is common, I just broke mine, it wasn't that big a deal. I had hit a bump, just after a shift, not sure if that is what did it or not.
Three and four:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scooter Style View Post
I have been through 2 tranny's and about to blow up my 3rd. I just keep buying 5-speeds for like $300 and pop and say screw it. I can't afford to buy a $2000 gear set. I would buy a 6speed but would need to get a 3.63 or wheatever the rear end close to that would be, but once again $$$. and with 270whp and 250ft. lbs I know I am gonna break plenty more.
Five:
Quote:
Originally Posted by mattkock View Post
After destroying my 5speed and putting in a 6speed I still have the 4.10 gears but I have a new 3.63gearset and Torsen diff sitting in my garage just waiting for my ACPT carbon fiber driveshaft to show up and I can put them all in together. The 3.63 should be much nicer on the freeway, although 80-130mph is quite a Hoot right now! Ask Bryce.
Six:
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoundSoul View Post
I'm not sure what the whtq tranny threshold is, but we totally ate 2nd gear in mine earlier this year. It exploded on the AutoX course while on a steady accell pull in 2nd. 232wtq and sticky tires will do it for sure.
Took me about 20 minutes. They aren't bulletproof at 350whp. Stop spreading shitty rumors.
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Old 02-12-2009, 01:49 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
One:


Two:


Three and four:


Five:


Six:


Took me about 20 minutes. They aren't bulletproof at 350whp. Stop spreading shitty rumors.
So you are one less than I have seen not grenade still. And I'm not using the internet to find them, either. I could find alot more if I felt like taking the time. For all the people who broke their 5-spd and posted about it, there are gonna be more who are maing that on the 5-spd and not breaking them. Maybe I should start a thread saying, "250whp+ on stock 5-spd?" and see how many post up. Properly driven and properly maintianed 5-spds will handle 350whp. Maybe people should pony up for some Motul fluids instead of whatever they get at Autozone?
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Old 02-12-2009, 02:14 AM   #25
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No, you can't ******* count. You gave 8, I gave 8. The 6 I posted, plus the two I have personally seen. Then someone else gave a 9th. It's not my fault you can't listen to reason.
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Old 02-12-2009, 02:24 AM   #26
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No, you can't ******* count. You gave 8, I gave 8. The 6 I posted, plus the two I have personally seen. Then someone else gave a 9th. It's not my fault you can't listen to reason.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FoundSoul
I'm not sure what the whtq tranny threshold is, but we totally ate 2nd gear in mine earlier this year. It exploded on the AutoX course while on a steady accell pull in 2nd. 232wtq and sticky tires will do it for sure.
Quote:
Jerry Hoffman had 2nd gear fail on a simple 2nd-gear acceleration pull during an autocross at 235tq.
Quote:
I have a friend who did the same thing at less than 200whp
Quote:
Originally Posted by BenR
I recently munched a 5 speed that has been whining for the last 3 years. I'm in the low 200s power wise for the last 3 months, but most of it's life was around 160ish. I prefer 6 pucks and tracked/drifted it at least twice a month.

I haven't taken it apart and probably won't but it got me home sounding like death.
So those aren't the same person? You gave 6, plus yourself, which, unless you're doing the math, equals 7.

So we have 8 people for both of us. Hopefully Matt will get a tally in here, since he has grenaded a 5-spd. That will go in as the tie-breaker as it sits right now. I posted a thread on M.net and CR.net. Let the evidence speak for itself.

Maybe you'll start a thread here? These are your morons on this site, right?
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Old 02-12-2009, 03:44 AM   #27
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Dude, wtf. Just because you have seen 8 that havent doesnt mean they dont break, that just means those 8 havent broken yet. What a tard... I havent seen rain in 8 days, it must not rain. Oh, you've seen 8 days it has, well Im sorry, your wrong, I havent seen rain, it doesnt happen obviously...
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Old 02-12-2009, 03:47 AM   #28
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First person to 10 wins.
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Old 02-12-2009, 03:59 AM   #29
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I'm not arguing with people who can't do basic math.
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Old 02-12-2009, 04:04 AM   #30
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Ray - why dont you start that thread you mentioned...I really dont see many 5 speeds lasting long past 250whp. You realize you are almost tripling the power/torque that the car comes with from the factory right? I'd be curious to see results of that thread
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Old 02-12-2009, 05:06 AM   #31
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Which as Ive already stated is why Im staying at sub 200whp until 6 speed time. I want to take no chances in being stranded, its no fun. I broke down 4 times on the way home with one of my RX7's, on a 250 mile trip. NOT FUN being stuck away from home. Id rather not blow up a trans in the middle of downtown Birmingham and get my *** shot at 2am on the way home from work on the dangerous side of town...
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Old 02-12-2009, 09:16 AM   #32
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ray_sir_6,
While I had a 200+whp NA for quite some time and never broker a trans, there were plenty of guys in the early days of the FMIIs that broke trans on the miatapower mailing list. This list pre-dated the M.net forum.

Like any other trans, the Miata 5 speed will certainly last longer with some mechanical empathy, but pure power can certainly break them.

I also had an '04 Subaru FXT with the 5 speed. They're known as glass transmissions and people break them all the time with minor bolt-on mods. I put down 411 whp and didn't break the trans. A month after I sold the car, the guy who bought it broke the trans. He claimed that he wasn't banging gears and I have no reason to doubt him. He wasn't trying to get me to pony up for a replacement or anything, and he had plans to go with a built trans anyway.

Frank
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:00 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
I have read into it. 350whp is the safe limit. I read and go on personal experience. We had the stock 5-spd on the 480whp 1.8l, never had an issue. Keith Verges' cars are making 275whp with a FMII kit, Hydra ECU, and all run stock 5-spds. NEVER had a tranny fail. They make close to 250tq as well.
Keith Verges is putting down 230whp "for reliability." Everyone blows them up at 250whp. He's had trans death, talk to him about it...I did.
List of people I know who've blown up transmissions at 220whp+ in dallas:
Gary S
Mike (silver miata)
Cliff (black miata)
Keith Verges' buddy with the yellow car
the ATS car
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Old 02-12-2009, 10:01 AM   #34
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oh, and a lot of you ------s have aids. Want to blow your trans up? Put 230whp through it for a few days.

I know I'm not going to drive from Dallas, track my 5-speed all day long in Tulsa, and expect it to get me home. I will however, expect to get laid every day of my life because I'm the **** and everybody wants to be me.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:08 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
Right. You keep thinking that. Can you find me 6 more cars that have between 200 and 250whp that have broken trannies? I have posted 8 examples that I have PERSONALLY seen. 7 SM-T cars, and one that was a friend's who worked here when I was just a customer. To use your own statement against you, "Just cause YOUR tranny breaks at 219whp/201tq doesn't mean that's the norm, and the 5-spds are gonna break at 250whp." Who are these people who have "routinely" broken their trannies at 250whp? Anyone wanna e-mail Matt? I know he broke his 5-spd before he did his Quaife gearset. What whp level was he at? Well, he never says whp, he always uses tq when discussing his power levels, so someone ask him. I have his email, but if I ask, I know everyone will call BS when I post it up. I'm pretty sure he was over 300tq, but I'm not 100%. So someone, find out, and post your findings.
Nathan, Gary has broken 5 5spd trannies at various power ranges and with various mileage on the transmissions. His red miata (currently 290whp) has been driven maybe 10K miles since he has owned it in 4 years and he does not shift hard on the street or the track, because of of the weakness of the 5spd gears. MiataMike lost 3rd in December at 230whp and one of Gary's customers, Cliff, lost 3rd with 220whp.

Matt had broken at least two 5 speeds before the quaife.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:18 PM   #36
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My car made 261/252...I expect it to blow up the 5-speed in a few weeks or a month, not the first time I roll into boost.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
I have his email, but if I ask, I know everyone will call BS when I post it up. I'm pretty sure he was over 300tq, but I'm not 100%. So someone, find out, and post your findings.
I think matt has better things to do with his time than argue on the internet.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:20 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by NA6C-Guy View Post
Dude, wtf. Just because you have seen 8 that havent doesnt mean they dont break, that just means those 8 havent broken yet. What a tard... I havent seen rain in 8 days, it must not rain. Oh, you've seen 8 days it has, well Im sorry, your wrong, I havent seen rain, it doesnt happen obviously...
Yet when you see it rain, you think it ALWAYS RAINS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I'm not arguing with people who can't do basic math.
Ditto.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Ray - why dont you start that thread you mentioned...I really dont see many 5 speeds lasting long past 250whp. You realize you are almost tripling the power/torque that the car comes with from the factory right? I'd be curious to see results of that thread
Well, I checked the one at CR.net and they have several people who blew up a few 5-spds. So yeah, I'll admit alot of people have broken them. It's going against what I've seen, but real numbers don't lie.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Keith Verges is putting down 230whp "for reliability." Everyone blows them up at 250whp. He's had trans death, talk to him about it...I did.
List of people I know who've blown up transmissions at 220whp+ in dallas:
Gary S
Mike (silver miata)
Cliff (black miata)
Keith Verges' buddy with the yellow car
the ATS car
I didn't even think to ask Gary @ TDR. And if you believe that post from Keith, then you go ahead. I hung out with Chris, his tech/mech who built and got tuned his first few SM-T cars. They all were in the 275whp range, they turned the wick up on the yellow one (the first one) to a tad over 300whp to see what happened with lap times, and they went slower, so they turned it back down to 275. They run 13-15psi on the FMII kits, with Hydra, so it's pretty easy to tell that Keith is not being completely honest. Have you ever seen a 225whp Miata PULL a MODDED C5Z06 on the straights?
YouTube - Corvette Chases Miata at MSR

That Vette is making north of 400whp...yet can't catch a 225whp Miata on the straights? You want to see what a car with similar power-to-weight does to a 225whp Miata (mine makes 223whp, so can't get much closer)? How about a 500whp Evo?

YouTube - Miata @ MSR Cresson Part 2

It's not that hard to tell using VISUAL EVIDENCE that they make WAY MORE THAN 225whp. Just something to think about.

I haven't heard of Keith or his buddy (I'm bad with names, but he has the white Evo) breaking trannies, but they go thru alot of motors.

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
oh, and a lot of you ------s have aids. Want to blow your trans up? Put 230whp through it for a few days.

I know I'm not going to drive from Dallas, track my 5-speed all day long in Tulsa, and expect it to get me home. I will however, expect to get laid every day of my life because I'm the **** and everybody wants to be me.
Well, I've done that before. Not Tulsa, but Temple and MSR Cresson. Maybe I'm just lucky. I did blow the 1.6 rear at 170whp after 6 months of serious flogging (over 100 drag launches, and a day at MSR for 5 sessions). It popped pulling slowly out onto a frontage road. Go figure.

Again, for those that just scanned to the bottom rather than read everything.....

<cliff notes> I'm being proven wrong. I'm not above being wrong. </cliff notes>
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:27 PM   #38
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My car made 261/252...I expect it to blow up the 5-speed in a few weeks or a month, not the first time I roll into boost.



I think matt has better things to do with his time than argue on the internet.
That's why I asked for someone to find out and post it. I'm curious at what whp/tq his broke at.
I thought I read somewhere he was close to 300tq, but I can't find it anywhere. I only read about the one that broke when he still set the RWD track record, the event before he got the Quaife put in for Utah.
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Old 02-12-2009, 12:42 PM   #39
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ladies...LADIES!

you sure know how to **** on someone's thread...you sound like a bunch of bitches in a cat fight.

two pages of broken 5 spd. trannies.

in case you missed it, the question AGAIN was...How high HP wise can a 6 spd. be taken before it breaks.
i suppose i'll find out first hand.
i thought more of you had 6 speeds, i was mistaken.
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Old 02-12-2009, 01:36 PM   #40
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Robino,

There aren't a ton of guys here making over 300hp. Not a lot have built bottom ends. Some, but not most. There have been a handful of guys that built 400+hp cars. JayL, 1badmx5 and I'm sure a few others. 6 spds are pretty much accepted as the way to go. 6 spds have failed but it is the exception not the rule. It seems that the 6 spd can take just about whatever the limits are of the BP engine unless it's some crazy 700hp build. Those guys then use the 3rd gen RX7 tranny it seems.

For the catfighting here's my take. Raysir6 is claiming 5 spds are fine since he hasn't seen any break. EVERYONE else says they are iffy once you get over 200hp and very iffy over 250. They don't all break. That's obvious. That the odds of breaking are much higher is generally accepted. There's a difference between will break and could break. Not all will. All could. It's a matter of odds and chance more than absolutes.
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