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Old 02-13-2009, 02:26 AM   #61
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Originally Posted by patsmx5 View Post
QFT.

He was right beside ole' JC-rotor dude that came here spouting how his 11:1 compression motor was gonna make huge amounts more power than anything with lesser comp. When JC gave up raysir6 stepped in and spouted off the same ****, and incorrectly used some math form garrett to "prove" he was right. Everybody said he was wrong but he insisted that he was correct. Yet from a physics standpoint, his argument didn't hold water. Neither from a thermodynamics standpoint. But he wouldn't listen, and had no REAL PROOF OR REASON to support his statement other than some math from garret he failed at using multiple times.

Then he dissed the megasquirt insisting that somehow an AEM ecu makes more HP just because it's an AEM. But once again, no REAL PROOF OR REASON why. Just that he was right, and that everybody else was wrong. Again, AFR's are AFR's, total timing is total timing, yet he insisted the AEM would still make substantially more power. But no proof or reasons why. Just because.

Now he's spouting off about 5 speeds being "good" for 350whp. Raysir6, **** off. You don't know what you are talking about. I can tell you what breaks the transmission. It's the same thing that breaks the R&P, diff, or axles. Shock loads. Axial stresses, torsional stresses, shear stresses, etc. The causes are numerous. If you can collectively control shock loads to a safe level then you increase durability. You're in the minority, so prove that you're right. And this time don't **** up your numbers every time.

Again, I DARE YOU to put together a logical argument as to why you are correct and support it with REASON (you know, facts, physics, loads causing deformation, etc). If you have no reason to support your argument, then you have no argument.
I total forgot about that thread. I corrected any errors I might have had in the formulas, and I was still proven correct there as well. Not sure where you came up with me being wrong, cause it didn't happen. I do believe the discussion was dropped cause the math wasn't working out for you. I'm sorry if your therapist had convinced you otherwise.

And the AEM vs MS argument. I really don't want to rehash this again. Do I have to keep going over everything until it goes the way you want? I'm sorry, but it's gonna keep ending the same way for you....badly.

Quote:
Again, I DARE YOU to put together a logical argument as to why you are correct and support it with REASON (you know, facts, physics, loads causing deformation, etc). If you have no reason to support your argument, then you have no argument.
Ditto. I'll keep running with the "my friend, your friend" argument as long as everyone else does.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:35 AM   #62
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wow dude. you sound like a complete douche.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:38 AM   #63
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In the good old days, Philip would have just banned him and we could all get on with our lives.
Sorry to have to shake things up, but when I see something that I think is wrong, or misguided, I like to get it straightened out. I'm sure it will just end with everyone calling me names, and giving up. It's hard to win when your wrong. Incase you didn't notice, I already started to concede defeat way up there, maybe it was on the other thread, but it's there. The numbers were looking bad for me, but when I'm wrong, I'm wrong, I admit it, and move on. No biggie, it's a learning experience. We can get a few people who need to learn that on this forum. But the numbers are on my side (for the moment?), so I'm not ready to admit defeat. Maybe this will show that there are alot of people who are making good power on the 5-spd, that you don't need to go get a 6-spd when ever you want to make good power. It would be good information regardless of if I am right, or the MT.net majority is.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:39 AM   #64
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wow dude. you sound like a complete douche.
Well put. Please feel free to continue to contribute in a worthwhile manner to this thread.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:48 AM   #65
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But the numbers are on my side

You're an idiot. I'm done.
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Old 02-13-2009, 02:59 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by magnamx-5 View Post
OMFG Raysir6 dude just stfu our **** is weak we need it strong if your weak **** is holding up for alilwhile longer great. My weak *** 5 speed is to but its just a question of when at the power lvls past 250 its simple physics the cases flexx the gears strip and we are left stranded cause our uber trannys ran outa uberness. U call us sheep but u dont preach inovation or a new way u show lazyness and complacency. U tout whatever u have as awesome to boost your selfesteem. I might have one of the ugliest cars here and a shitty *** MS but i have seen what works and exp what it is like to do real new ****. Why dont u go lurk on club raodster or something. They might have a new tanoue cover for u.
I think my car is uglier.

Lazyness? I'm not in here posting I guess.

Complacency? You are right, I'll definitely going with the flow on this one.



Most tanoue covers require mounting to the soft top and/or frame, which I have removed. Thanks for the tip though.

I am already on CR.net. They have an excuse, most don't know any better, and certainly don't claim to know anything. This is supposed to be the technical forum, the one to goto if you want to learn how to do it, and do it right. I think we need to make sure we are giving the right info, that we know our ****, not just cause it's just been accepted because someone has 3k+ posts and seems to know what the hell they are talking about. I hold alot of respect for alot of the people on this forum, and even most of the people that I seem to get involved in the most arguments with. But you're not gonna always be right, noone can know it all. If I think the info you are giving is incorrect, I'm gonna say it. Not just cause it's wrong, but because we aren't supposed to be wrong here. I have discussed about ECUs, compression ratios, Greddy turbos, and now trannies. I'm sorry if some of you think this site should be filled with mis-information, but I think we have to maintain what has gotten the MT.net rep where it is, not just sit on our laurels.

Last edited by ray_sir_6; 02-13-2009 at 03:57 AM.
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:17 AM   #67
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You were wrong on ECUs, compression ratios, and now trannies, too. Maybe you should learn that some of those members with 3,000 posts know more than you do.
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:25 AM   #68
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You're an idiot. I'm done.
Giving up so soon? I was actually thinking this would be a good discussion, since we are getting info from both "survivors" and "victims". I didn't spew names, and try to cut and run, when the numbers weren't in my favor.

Survivors:
magnamx-5
Hi Im Simon (CR.net)
y8s (M.net)
fooger03 (M.net)
Stephanie Turner (M.met)
lbader (M.net)
H-F (M.net)
cueball1
hustler
fmowry
Fireindc
ray_sir_6 (I decided since the people I am discussing this with can be counted, so can I...it's starting to look like the 2d game of a Mavs back-to-back...a ******* BLOW OUT!)

Victims:
DRFTMX5 (CR.net)
Matt Cramer (M.net)
Savington
Doppelgänger
TURNS101
exz3owner (we both know, so I threw him on the list)


I'm not including any "my friend broke his 5-spd", cause that will turn into a huge list of people who know people, for both sides, so lets just stick with people who actual post up for themselves.

"I don't expect it to last much longer" response was from some people who are "survivors". That is what this is about, can you expect it to last much longer or not?

Again, the numbers are on my side. Who's the idiot now? Yes, me, cause I took the time to actually respond to your comment when you said you were done. I guess you can just spectate from the sideline from here on out.

Last edited by ray_sir_6; 02-13-2009 at 03:34 AM. Reason: I did include myself...
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:27 AM   #69
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You were wrong on ECUs, compression ratios, and now trannies, too. Maybe you should learn that some of those members with 3,000 posts know more than you do.
Yet the numbers and facts supported my side. I was wrong in that I didn't agree with the group. 3000 posts and you're wrong about even a simple statement. Thanks for proving two of my points.
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:34 AM   #70
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Giving up so soon? I was actually thinking this would be a good discussion
It was never a good discussion. It was just you spouting off a bunch of unfounded bullshit, and a bunch of people telling you how wrong you were, and then you bitching and moaning about how you'd seen eight whole people who hadn't broken a 5-speed.

The idea of having an internet poll decide this is absolutely ridiculous. You simply need to understand that your personal experience does not dictate the reliability of this car. There are other people in this world, and a lot of them have broken 5-speeds at or around 250whp. It has become common enough for the community to decide that above 250whp, the tranny becomes a weakpoint. Just because you say that they're good to 350whp doesn't make it true; it just makes you an illogical idiot, a troll, and a fool. It's not as if we had a big circlejerk one day and decided that 250whp was where these break; that number has come out of dozens and dozens of cases of people breaking the transmission. If four people out of every ten break the 5-speed at 250whp, THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RELIABLE. That means that you have a near half and half chance of ******* it up. You've given 12 examples of people being OK, and six of people breaking them. ONE IN THREE IS NOT GOOD ODDS.

We didn't magically say 250whp was the number we'd say they were unreliable at; that figure has come from the experience of a lot of people over a long period of time. Some people never have an issue, some people get 6k out of it (myself), some people get 1500 miles (my good friend, whose car I helped build and tune), some people get 500 miles (Matt Kock). If you want to use an internet poll, that's fine by me, but let's agree that you cannot get majority +1 and call it reliable. If one out of every three Ford Tauruses ended up at the dealership after 50,000 miles with a blown motor, would anyone in their right mind call that reliable?

Last edited by Savington; 02-13-2009 at 03:45 AM.
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:45 AM   #71
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It was never a good discussion. It was just you spouting off a bunch of unfounded bullshit, and a bunch of people telling you how wrong you were, and then you bitching and moaning about how you'd seen eight whole people who hadn't broken a 5-speed.

The idea of having an internet poll decide this is absolutely ridiculous. You simply need to understand that your personal experience does not dictate the reliability of this car. There are other people in this world, and a lot of them have broken 5-speeds at or around 250whp. It has become common enough for the community to decide that above 250whp, the tranny becomes a weakpoint. Just because you say that they're good to 350whp doesn't make it true; it just makes you an illogical idiot, a troll, and a fool.
So much for sideline work for you.

I actually said, "350whp is the limit".

And you are spouting off an equal amount of "unfounded bullshit" as well. This is a discussion on the internet, but you say an internet poll is "absolutely ridiculous"? Again, I'm seeing a double-standard here. If you or someone else says it, it's true, but if someone doesn't agree with you, they have to pull out hard facts, charts, and basicly bring in a Mazda Engineer? My personal experience doesn't dictate the reliability of this car, yet other people's personal experiences do? And yet the personal experiences of people who haven't had their tranny fail doesn't apply?

Illogical, a troll, and a fool? Must make you feel pretty low to get your *** handed to you by me then.
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:47 AM   #72
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Reply to my edited post. I want to see you explain how a 33% chance of breaking a transmission above 250whp is considered reliable.
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:54 AM   #73
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
It's not as if we had a big circlejerk one day and decided that 250whp was where these break; that number has come out of dozens and dozens of cases of people breaking the transmission. If four people out of every ten break the 5-speed at 250whp, THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RELIABLE. That means that you have a near half and half chance of ******* it up. You've given 12 examples of people being OK, and six of people breaking them. ONE IN THREE IS NOT GOOD ODDS.

We didn't magically say 250whp was the number we'd say they were unreliable at; that figure has come from the experience of a lot of people over a long period of time. Some people never have an issue, some people get 6k out of it (myself), some people get 1500 miles (my good friend, whose car I helped build and tune), some people get 500 miles (Matt Kock). If you want to use an internet poll, that's fine by me, but let's agree that you cannot get majority +1 and call it reliable. If one out of every three Ford Tauruses ended up at the dealership after 50,000 miles with a blown motor, would anyone in their right mind call that reliable?


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Originally Posted by ray_sir_6 View Post
Wasn't that guy with the 8 sec Miata running a 6-spd and broke third. He was making like 580whp or something, drag only car. So, realisticly, 400hp should be cake for a 6-spd. 5-spd, ehhh, 350whp is pretty much the limit.
Try doing a search for "reliable" in this thread and you'll see I never used it.

I'm saying that you can run a 5-spd at 250whp, 270whp, maybe 300whp and it may last you 40k miles. You don't have to immediately go find a 6-spd when you get over 200whp cause you are sitting on a ticking timebomb. So long as you drive it right, and maintain it, you shouldn't have to worry that everytime you pull out of the driveway you may not make it back. Can it break? Sure, so can your 1.8 rear, but it's not guaranteed.
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Old 02-13-2009, 03:55 AM   #74
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Reply to my edited post. I want to see you explain how a 33% chance of breaking a transmission above 250whp is considered reliable.
I did.
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:02 AM   #75
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How did you decide on the 350whp number?
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:10 AM   #76
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
If four people out of every ten break the 5-speed at 250whp, THAT DOESN'T MAKE IT RELIABLE. That means that you have a near half and half chance of ******* it up. You've given 12 examples of people being OK, and six of people breaking them. ONE IN THREE IS NOT GOOD ODDS.

We didn't magically say 250whp was the number we'd say they were unreliable at; that figure has come from the experience of a lot of people over a long period of time. Some people never have an issue, some people get 6k out of it (myself), some people get 1500 miles (my good friend, whose car I helped build and tune), some people get 500 miles (Matt Kock). If you want to use an internet poll, that's fine by me, but let's agree that you cannot get majority +1 and call it reliable. If one out of every three Ford Tauruses ended up at the dealership after 50,000 miles with a blown motor, would anyone in their right mind call that reliable?
And what's the reliability of a boosted 230whp stock 1.6l? You have the same results. A good % of them will have issues, but I don't hear people saying, "You should build the motor before you make that much whp." It's called an acceptable risk. Whether you can't afford a built motor (most Miata people are cheap bastards) or just want to see how far you can push it before it blows, it's what most people do. Same goes for the 5-spd. So when I hear people saying, "I'm holding off on making 200whp cause I need to get a 6-spd first", or, "I know it's not gonna last, so I'm looking for a 6-spd/have a 6-spd ready to drop in", it just irks me. I was honest in my first post in this thread....350whp and it's GONNA GRENADE. Below that it's really the owners option. There is a risk, but there is a risk in any modifying of cars.
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:14 AM   #77
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How do you know it's going to grenade at 350whp? If those 8 trannies you've seen have survived at 275-300, why wouldn't they hold up to 400whp? 500whp?

I'm asking you, since you're the authority on 5-speed reliability and all.
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:15 AM   #78
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How did you decide on the 350whp number?
I didn't. I got that number from several different people who race and modify Miatas. I don't know everything, I prefer to search for the people who know and rack their brains for knowledge.

Hell, there are even exceptions to it...like the d-r-i-f-t miata I have mentioned a few times...his lasted 2 events...and then his engine grenaded.
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:21 AM   #79
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
How do you know it's going to grenade at 350whp? If those 8 trannies you've seen have survived at 275-300, why wouldn't they hold up to 400whp? 500whp?

I'm asking you, since you're the authority on 5-speed reliability and all.
Read my last post.

I never got into the specifics of why they fail, just where is the limit. Most people who race Miatas don't have an R&D team, they just run the **** till it breaks, and then swap in another one. They use the easiest factor when determining why it broke, like too much power, too much tire, didn't put it in right, didn't refill it with fluid, etc. If they, or me, were concerned with spending the $$$$ to find the weak spot and fix it, then I'm sure it would be leaked out and made common knowledge. Sadly, there really isn't any money to be made by finding it, and fixing it, in the Miata community. Hell, even FM gives some half-*** reason why they fail, cause even they won't waste their money trying to figure it out. They just sell a stronger set of gears to fit in the case (Quaife).

I do appreciate your acknowledgement of my superior intellect and mechanical expertise.
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Old 02-13-2009, 04:55 AM   #80
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I do appreciate your acknowledgement of my superior intellect and mechanical expertise.
Apparently sarcasm escapes you just as easily as logic. You aren't convincing anyone here of anything except your own stubborn idiocy. Have fun with that; I'll have fun with my bulletproof drivetrain.
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