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Old 04-25-2013, 01:51 AM   #1
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Default How "twitchy" is zero toe on the street ?

Last few times I have aligned my car ive just gone with a small amount of toe In up front (rear is also toed in) and the car feels twitchy at speed. Im blaming this on my bald Dunlop Z1s



Im about to order a set of 205 Rivals and am considering trying out zero toe up front. For those here who mainly use their Miatas on the street how does it feel ?
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:00 AM   #2
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My '90 is 100% street driven. 195-50/15 R1R on 15x7 wheels. Camber -1.5 at all four corners, zero toe front and rear, caster appx +4.

I love it. Wouldn't even think to use the word "twitchy" to describe it. It just does exactly what you tell it to.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:09 AM   #3
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Manual,power or Depowered steering ?

I need to bump my caster back up to make the steering a little heavier. I have it set to 3.5 thinking I would properly depower a rack soon. But I keep going back and forth on if I was the keep the PS or not.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:15 AM   #4
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Not twitchy, but zero front toe is slightly annoying in needing slight corrections to track straight.
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Old 04-25-2013, 02:35 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gt2560rMiata View Post
Manual,power or Depowered steering ?
Unmodified power steering.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Not twitchy, but zero front toe is slightly annoying in needing slight corrections to track straight.
Yeah, that's a good analysis. You do have to actually drive the car, but it's not like it wants to leap out of the lane or anything weird like that. I wouldn't call it annoying, in that I don't find it fatiguing or unpredictable. Honestly, I wouldn't have it any other way.
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Old 04-25-2013, 09:36 AM   #6
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I loved my powersteer miata with shortened steering knuckles (drift spec...i know) and 0 toe.

you definately had to be on top of things because a bump would mean that if your arm moves with the bump that your going to move.

That car was so sick. I miss it.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:08 AM   #7
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it feels fine
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:13 AM   #8
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1/16 total toe out is fine too, its not till you get to about 1/8 total toe out that the highway becomes interesting. I wish I dialed in more caster though 3.5* give the car very little centering force in the like 10* closest to center. Probably going to 4.5* on the next alignment.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:15 AM   #9
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FWIW: On heavily crowned roads, expect the to need to counter steer to keep the car car tracking straight. 0 toe is no big deal on the street, just be prepared to baby-sit the car a bit more.
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Old 04-25-2013, 11:25 AM   #10
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0 toe is less of an issue than Falken Azenis in the rain.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:12 PM   #11
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0 toe, -2.2ish camber up front, properly depowered rack, ~5 caster, 205/50 R888s on 15x8 wheels......car is amazing to drive on the street and the track.

Although admittedly I rarely drive it on the street.
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Old 04-25-2013, 10:30 PM   #12
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Run 1/16 out on my RX7, didn't even notice a difference compared to stock.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:44 AM   #13
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I would think that much negative camber combined with zero toe, or toe out, would demolish tires for a DD.
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Old 04-26-2013, 11:48 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karter74 View Post
I would think that much negative camber combined with zero toe, or toe out, would demolish tires for a DD.
2.5* of camber with 1/16 toe out didnt seem to appreciably do any extra were on my RS3s for 10k miles. But that included a whole bunch of auto-x to even it out and some fun street driving. Of course that was on RS3s, so even at auto-x they never got hot enough to wear, or grip.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:09 PM   #15
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Quote:
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I would think that much negative camber combined with zero toe, or toe out, would demolish tires for a DD.
Toe tends to do more for wear than camber does.

Especially if you're the type that attacks on/off-ramps, etc.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:56 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karter74 View Post
I would think that much negative camber combined with zero toe, or toe out, would demolish tires for a DD.



Quote:
Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
Especially if you're the type that attacks on/off-ramps, etc.


That which gives me the best grip and avoids squealing / sliding / skidding while cornering under power is best for tire longevity.
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Old 04-26-2013, 12:59 PM   #17
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I guess what I wrote came off incorrectly. I know toe is the main culprit of tire wear, so I figured that the combination of lots of negative camber and toe out would definitely eat the inside edge of tires.

I'm glad you guys have had good luck, I ran ~-2 of camber and 0 toe on my street car, and I destroyed a set of tires in <10k miles. Cheap all seasons, but nonetheless.
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Old 04-26-2013, 01:14 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by karter74 View Post
I'm glad you guys have had good luck, I ran ~-2 of camber and 0 toe on my street car, and I destroyed a set of tires in <10k miles.
I'm trying to remember if I have ever gotten 10,000 miles out a set of tires on a Miata.

I honestly don't think I have. Not that I really consider this to be a problem.

If I were commuting two hundred and fifty miles a day on the highway, it would be kind of a different matter. I wouldn't be driving a Miata, for one thing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by karter74 View Post
Cheap all seasons
See my previous post about the Camry. I wasn't making that up, actually. When I broke my left foot a few years ago, my sister let me borrow her car (automatic) until I was able to drive mine again. I completely annihilated the all-season front tires on it in under three months. Cheap tires with high TW ratings seems to go away rather quickly when you drive them beyond their limit.
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Old 04-26-2013, 10:11 PM   #19
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On a street driven car they compensate the caster settings from one side to the other to account for the crown of the road.
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Old 04-27-2013, 05:58 PM   #20
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Depowered, (not properly) -2.1* camber, 0* toe, no problemo. Drives great, not twitchy at all. Never had adverse wear in the last 5yrs.
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