When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Savington, sorry, I'm not impressed. And no, it's not 8-10k in components. Don't judge by a 34 post count. You don't know who I am. I've been involved with these for more than 12 years.
Savington, sorry, I'm not impressed. And no, it's not 8-10k in components. Don't judge by a 34 post count. You don't know who I am. I've been involved with these for more than 12 years.
I don't pretend to know you you are, nor am I petty enough to judge people based on post count. Plenty of highly competent industry names have accounts here with <50 posts to their name. I replied to your post on its merits.
You can't, in good faith, advocate for someone to start with drop spindles when they ask the kind of questions that the OP here asked. That's all I'm saying here.
If you don't think "the best" suspension costs $8-10k, I would encourage you to look harder at the parts required to put "the best" setup together. 8-10k was an estimate from the top of my head - the napkin math indicates a slightly wider range, perhaps 7-11k+, depending on how much money you are spending on things like shocks (with DSC Sport, the sky's the limit), adjustable swaybars (blade style w/ cockpit adjustment), and bushings/bearings. That also excludes things like tubular subframes, and assumes you're leaving all the pickup points intact on the chassis.
You've been here long enough to know how to avoid stepping in the poo, so stop doing it
I really don't care if some self proclaimed expert is impressed by me, my opinion or my car. You aren't my target audience. When major automotive manufactures start featuring your car on their web-pages, when major tire manufactures use you and your car's likenesses in their advertisements, when you start winning championships.....you'll be at the entry level of people who MIGHT impress me and who's opinions MIGHT be a blip on my radar.
And you really don't math well for someone who claims to be a suspension guru.
Tuba.
Forgive me. Bahkack backs away sheepishly. I appreciate what you've done for the community and ask forgiveness (seriously). I was in a bad and cocky mood.
Just fyi, I am an OEM designer. I am not an engineer. I am a styling designer. But I had real production data to work with and loads of Ford engineers to help.
I spent a considerable amount of time math modeling drop spindles back in '06 with mazda data (we owned them back then). I had a very eager tier 2 supplier who was willing to mill them out for me but they couldn't get precision right for bearings, or even close (they were not a suspension supplier). Also had clearance issues that I never completely sorted out. It ended badly. The move to MR2 bearings by Keisler was cool. I'd have never thought of that. I'll post the pics of the alias data that I did back then as soon as I find it.
concealer404, my questions on the bilstein thread were for my son's car built to his budget. There is trial and error involved in doing those so my questions were not ignorant. Why repeat mistakes others made when they can give you what they learned using the parts they had to work with. Surly you understand that. If you look more carefully you'll see the tig welded NB modified top hats I designed and fab'd. Is that fisherprice?
It's not that they were ignorant, it's that they were basic and had been answered a few dozen times in that thread.
But i am a surly person. <3
I've messed around with Bilsteins and coils for years. I can't for the life of me read a shock dyno. I've tried. I just get help and I get revalves - some successful and some not. Reason for the question was I'd forgotten what works for spring length for ride height target, I have stacks of springs. I got helpers and went with 6" for rear of son's car. But really the correct answer is Xida which I've got on one of my cars (and an OSGiken). Generally I rely on a checkbook now. ACE is next (if Emilio deems me worthy!) and drop spindles which are coming. I'll post. I believe XL would work with the spindles but why go half way? I could eat crow and ask you guys what fitment pitfalls to look for but hopefully 949 will help. I've wanted to do drop spindles for a very long time. I had put a lot of effort into it. Now I'm just going to buy them. I'm anxious. I'm selling a Mk1 Morris Cooper 1275S to fund the suspension and induction. Yes I suppose my outlay will exceed $8k-10 for suspension but I don't think it'd have to.
On to more serious questions about the keisler spindles.....
I understand the changes restore control arm angles and reduce body roll all else being equal. They also put the suspension back in the less aggressive part of the camber curve. Is the latter a good thing? Is the former benefit enough to offset the latter (assuming its bad). Just don’t hear much about these. Would love to hear from guys using em successfully on a road course.
Not something I’ll dive into anytime soon. More curious than anything.
I know this is dated thread but it comes up a lot when you are searching about drop spindles.
I have noticed very few people that have these spindles installed have left their thoughts and views about them so I will give some insight of my experience so far with my drop spindles.
The install is pretty straight forward for putting on custom racing parts. Some times you have to make adjustments to make it work. Especially when dealing with multiple manufacturer's special speed parts.
The rears went on no problem, and Keisler does mention in his instructions about axle and shock issues. I had to do some spring swapping to get to a suitable shorter spring. A smart fix would be to offset the lower shock mount to clear the adjusters. I will need to get some track time to see if these springs are going to stay. This setup clears the stock 15" wheel. FN Big Little Brake kit with V8R light 2-piece rear rotor. Keislers installed on rear Rear Keislers with SadFab hubs and FM BLB brackets. Watch your rear shock clearance!! I changed to a shorter rear spring to get the adjusters up and away from the axle.
The thread title poses the question is it worth it?
If you race and really want to win, spending $2k to get an advantage is a no brainer if it remains with in the rules. The next question should be, where the rules allow these, what is winning races now?
If you like a great bit-o-kit and spending nearly the same amount as you got in the original car. Yes, its worth it. I spent a lovely week and a half sequestered in my driveway rebuilding my suspension and installing them.
If you like your NA/NB lowered and have a decent amount of camber and not be plagued with bump steer issues. Yes, it's worth it as the drop spindles fix several issues at once that will nickle and dime you to death individually.
If you start with the drop spindles as your 1st suspension mod, you can keep your stock length shocks and springs and stock sway bars. The geometry corrections that the Keisler apply require less roll bar, less spring rate, more travel then most aftermarket parts give you. So just leave them stock for now.
I have not raced with these yet but daily driving the car I can give you some insight. It now has 2 deg neg camber all the way around and the caster got bumped up to 5.5 degrees. Toe is about the same at 1/8 deg front and back.
1st thing you notice is the caster change, lots more return to center feel, maybe too much. I absolutely love the low speed turn in now. AutoX meyhem master! The camber is noticeable in the higher speed corners, when in a nicely balanced slide I get rewarded with that cool scrubby feel from the car. I am still tweaking the shocks and driving it everyday and once I get back on a track I can update then.
Sorry to bump old thread but makes since to keep it all in one spot.
Has anyone done the Gen3 fronts? I am looking for a front wheel bearing/hub upgrade and this seems to make more sense than spending 400+ a side on other setups I have seen. But Keislers site seems to mention hubs sold separately and no mention of what they are, Miata roadster mentions some from xb/xa scion they require special machining but the site looks a bit dated and he may be talking about Gen 2s.
They are still the same MR2 hubs, guessing from the photos. I have a full gen2 set on xida XLs.
The toyota hubs will not fit OEM rotors without machining the OD down, but the stock MR2 hubs fit perfect under the 11.75" brake hat.
Thanks the info on his website all seems aimed at the GEN2 but list several hubs/bearing setups but no mention of mods required. I'll probably see if I can clarify everything with him but figured I'd see if anyone had gotten GEN3s yet.
02-28-2018, 12:34 PM
3
<3
I ride on Keisler spindles
