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Old 03-14-2013, 03:19 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by shanem View Post
I've beat on my turbo car for a year now down to 5 seconds under the spec miata record on a rough track using koni sports and GC sleeves/springs (factory 1.8 brakes too). It doesn't suck nearly as bad as people think, it's just not as good as ballerovers like xida.




they suck in the following situations:
  • the mindset of getting into a car with konis ***** sports
  • backing out of the driveway and concussing from the 0.50" drop of the curb
  • hemorraging brain from speed bump #1
  • seizure from speed bump #2
  • teeth falling out from hitting pothole out of neighborhood
  • inablity to take on ramp at any good speed because inferior suspension
  • various screws falling from random places once to speed on highway from inability to absorb any inperfections in road
  • getting into coworkers car loaded with racelands, enjoying the smooth ride and going just as slow around corners; contracting HIVs.
They are good in the following situations:
  • Impressing your autox buddies back in 1990 because you worked with Koni to develop a shock with the same damping curve as stock shocks, but with tons of extra rebound in low-speed, so you could stay on stock springs, but to keep you on the bumpstops around longer sweepers thus increasing your springsrates to infinity to get an extra edge in a silly stock class in a silly motorsports event that no one cares about.
  • Feeding the troll that is the m.net default "go to" answer for the last 20 years.
  • The placebo effect from thinking you improved your suspension setup.
The fact that you've shaved that time is a testament to your good driving ability (being able to overcome your self-inflicted handicap) and the turbo. It's not like SM has a suspension setup that anyone with a clue would ever try to replicate.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:25 PM   #22
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ok thanks 18psi, I'll keep researching thanks, guys
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:43 PM   #23
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What is missing in this whole coversation is the primary useage for these shocks. If it is a street driven car, stay with twin-tube. Twin-tube shocks have gas pressue that helps prevent the shock oil from frothing (Creating bubbles). Mono-tube shocks do not have the gas pressure so they are more prone to frothing, and when you get air bubbles in the oil, the piston is no longer being controlled by that oil.

There are several schools of thought over which shock is better. I look at it this way, if you want to win National Championships (Autocrossing, NASA, Road Racing) Koni has a geat track record, but then again so does Moton. If you want to hard-park, low-and-slow any shock will work until you smash the piston from removing your bump-stomps.

In my personal cars, I have won money on Koni's. I have not won anything on any Bilstein equipped cars that I have driven. I have also won money on Tiens, but I would not recommend them.

I will warn you, there are two groups of people, the Koni people and the revalve Bilstein people. There is no in between for these groups. Koni people say the revalve Bilsteins are garbage and the Revalve people say the Koni's are garbage.

The correct answer for which shock you should buy, might be this:

Buy the best shock you can afford. If you can afford Koni or Bilstein, buy them. If you can only afford Racelands, save your money until you can buy Koni or Bilstein. See who has what in your area and take some rides and then choose.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:46 PM   #24
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Konis have a great track record because there was no competition, for a better shock for the miata, for the last 15 years. that doesnt count.

they are the worst shock for the miata. the term shock is fitting for them...as the harsh ride is shocking.

konis are garbage...anything who thinks otherwise, probably spent $300 on a Randall intake and a chrome luggage rack.
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Old 03-14-2013, 03:52 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MX5RACER View Post
What is missing in this whole coversation is the primary useage for these shocks. If it is a street driven car, stay with twin-tube. Twin-tube shocks have gas pressue that helps prevent the shock oil from frothing (Creating bubbles). Mono-tube shocks do not have the gas pressure so they are more prone to frothing, and when you get air bubbles in the oil, the piston is no longer being controlled by that oil.
Just curious, what makes street use more likely to lead to frothing vs track usage?
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:27 PM   #26
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Just curious, what makes street use more likely to lead to frothing vs track usage?
On da streetz, you go harder, bro.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:32 PM   #27
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or in hustlers case, you go hard all the time. 10/10
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:33 PM   #28
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Koni 2013!!!!!!!!!
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:36 PM   #29
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Koni 2013!!!!!!!!!
Remember that time on the way to the dyno, I was tuning your car, and almost lost your laptop when we hit that dip in the road and we launched out of the seats?

koni 2008.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:41 PM   #30
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It is the repetitive nature of bumps, dips, wash-boaring we encounter everyday on the road. If you think about most tracks, they are smooth, so the only action a shock may see is the slower loading from side to side, braking, acceleration and the every now and again curb. There is a lot more time between events (Shock shaft movements) on the track compared to street driving.
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Old 03-14-2013, 04:52 PM   #31
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This is an area where spending the money is absolutely worth it.

You're already at a $500 budget apparently. How many times over the next couple of years do you expect to repetitively "upgrade"? Would it not make more sense to save your beans and get a really great setup once? Xida or FCM type setup?
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Old 03-14-2013, 05:40 PM   #32
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Don't get the Konis. And if you are going to get the Konis buy mine in a few months.

They came on my car, and I hate them. It's bad enough that Tucson roads are apparently driven on by 18-wheelers that have replaced their wheels with jackhammers, but to drive on the road after them with Konis is hell. You will also bottom out on every speed bump because of the lack of high speed damping unless you ricer crawl over them, and even then you're going to scrape rails. You might also get a concussion from dips in the freeway or speed tables if you have a hard top.

To top it all off, most places charge around $100+ to rebuild them, and they're $150 new. I suppose you could get a custom valve job if you could get a used set for nearly free and they'd be a good option when combined with a GC kit, but this goes for all of the revalvable shocks.

Seems like these are the best options based on my research:
(Note: Get NB parts. Buy beg or steal NB top hats. Top hat price not included. You should also get aftermarket sways if you don't have them already.)

R!celands - $375
R!celands w/ lighter rear springs* ~ $475?
FM's V-Maxx - $600
Revalved shocks + GC Kit ~ $600-800 + price of used shocks
Tein Basis - $690
Bilstein Sports + GC Kit - $875
Xida-CS - $2100
Xida Full - $4400

*Can't recall better spring rates for R!celand. Read the thread if you go that route. More information than you can shake a stick at.

I'm going to be going R!celands with different springs next, since my Koni's are old and starting to protest over speed bumps, while I save up for the Xida-CS goodness.

Last edited by TheScaryOne; 03-14-2013 at 07:44 PM.
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:21 PM   #33
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They came on my car, and I hate them. It's bad enough that Tucson roads are apparently driven on by 18-wheelers that have replaced their wheels with jackhammers, but to drive on the road after them with Konis is hell. You will also bottom out on every speed bump because of the lack of high speed damping unless you ricer crawl over them, and even then you're going to scrape rails. You might also get a concussion from dips in the freeway or speed tables if you have a hard top.
You're doing it wrong, you need to drive your street car on an auto-x course and "win" "events"

Quote:
I'm going to be going R!celands with different springs next, since my Koni's are old and starting to protest over speed bumps, while I save up for the Xida-CS goodness.
why not just wear a neck brace/hans device and just stay with konis while you save up? or those shocks in the FS section?
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Old 03-14-2013, 06:35 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheScaryOne View Post
Seems like these are the best options based on my research:
(Note: Get NB parts. Buy beg or steal NB top hats. Top hat price not included. You should also get aftermarket sways if you don't have them already.)

R!celands - $375
R!celands w/ lighter rear springs* ~ $475?
Revalved shocks + GC Kit ~ $600-800 + price of used shocks
Bilstein Sports + GC Kit - $875
Xida-CS - $2100
Xida Full - $4400

*Can't recall better spring rates for R!celand. Read the thread if you go that route. More information than you can shake a stick at.

I'm going to be going R!celands with different springs next, since my Koni's are old and starting to protest over speed bumps, while I save up for the Xida-CS goodness.
For a mostly street car, I'm not sure a setup like the $700 Tein Street Basis is not a better option. You get everything together in one package, including bumpstops. You don't get the fiddly ***** which, in my opinion, is not a bad thing.

By the time you piece together many of the other setups, it's not hard to spend more money and time. Just throwin' that out there.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:14 PM   #35
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
why not just wear a neck brace/hans device and just stay with konis while you save up? or those shocks in the FS section?
I can get a good deal on a Hans through work, but I think I'd enjoy changing to cheap shocks more.

And the Tokico Illumina's? I saw them in FS, but they're NA, and I already have a set of NB top hats and bumps that are itching a hole in my storage unit. And I have mystery springs.

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For a mostly street car, I'm not sure a setup like the $700 Tein Street Basis is not a better option.
I totally forgot about emilio's Tein packages. Great value there. Less money than FM's V-maxx stuff, with a bigger brand.

Last edited by TheScaryOne; 03-14-2013 at 07:47 PM.
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:18 PM   #36
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Not sure what you mean: tein basis and fm vmaxx are 700 and 600 respectively.

I like both and think they're really similar to one another with the vmaxx being a bit more focused on street driving and the basis on track. Both are about mid-level performance.

I love my fm stg1 setup on the street, hataz gonna hate
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Old 03-14-2013, 07:43 PM   #37
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Bah. I was looking under their "suspension packages" at the stage 2 that comes with swaybars for $750, not under "suspension components."

At $600 with the right spring rates and helper springs... I might go that route instead of R!celands.
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Old 03-14-2013, 09:52 PM   #38
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Honestly if I was in your position and couldn't afford xidas that's EXACTLY what I'd do.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:20 AM   #39
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tein basis and fm vmaxx are 700 and 600 respectively.
Just for anyone paying attention:

Vmaxx Classic = 391/258
Vmaxx Track pack = 504/336

I'm "relatively" happy with the Classic's + FM sways, but it hasn't taken much track time to already need more rate and more sway. At the end of the season, XIDA's and Emilio's sways will go on, or if I get enough OT, sooner.
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Old 03-15-2013, 12:25 AM   #40
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I had the classics and absolutely loved em. Perfect balance between performance and comfort.

The trackheads in here will probably wanna opt for the track version.
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