MFactory upgraded gearsets
03-21-2017, 03:07 PM
#143
Former Vendor
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I am lazy, ergo: 3.6 vs 3.3, 0.3 difference, or about 10%. Take 10% off your current cruising RPM. I run ~3600rpm at 80, so 10% less is ~3250.
Actual math, loading it into my gearing spreadsheet: 23" tire, 6sp, 3.63s are 3584rpm@80mph, 3.308s are 3260rpm.
I like my way better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acamas_(son_of_Theseus)
Actual math, loading it into my gearing spreadsheet: 23" tire, 6sp, 3.63s are 3584rpm@80mph, 3.308s are 3260rpm.
I like my way better.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acamas_(son_of_Theseus)
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03-21-2017, 05:49 PM
#145
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Which car is Acamas? Is it the street car? I want a review of how they compare to the 3.63 gears and a 6speed on the interstate. What rpms is cruising for 65/70/75/80mph?
I also wonder if these came from one of the factories that MiataRoadster tried to get to make them. I believe Bill said he tried a few shops in Taiwan, but none could get the QC that he wanted.
I also wonder if these came from one of the factories that MiataRoadster tried to get to make them. I believe Bill said he tried a few shops in Taiwan, but none could get the QC that he wanted.
65: 2646rpm
70: 2849rpm
75: 3053rpm
80: 3256rpm
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03-21-2017, 09:29 PM
#147
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Between 3.3 gear set and the transmission talk, I wonder how FM's interest (if there is any) would sway things i.e. economies of scale.
The FM2R setup could really benefit from lower ratios and a stronger gearset. I'm sure the folks that have FM do all the work would be stoked to get a transmission they never have to worry about breaking and a differential that allows them to tootle along on the highway at more reasonable RPMs.
(FM slash Moss slash TSE slash 949. FM came to mind first because that's where folks seem to go for the turnkeys)
The FM2R setup could really benefit from lower ratios and a stronger gearset. I'm sure the folks that have FM do all the work would be stoked to get a transmission they never have to worry about breaking and a differential that allows them to tootle along on the highway at more reasonable RPMs.
(FM slash Moss slash TSE slash 949. FM came to mind first because that's where folks seem to go for the turnkeys)
Last edited by ridethecliche; 03-21-2017 at 09:52 PM.
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03-22-2017, 12:24 AM
#148
Not that it matters too much but I seem to be the one that "discovered" the 3.3 buried on MFactory's site. Told Andrew a few hours later then he ordered one, as we did. We have been talking with MFactory for almost a month about various projects. I'll share more as we get a program going.
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03-22-2017, 12:30 AM
#149
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Join Date: May 2016
Location: Lents, Oregon
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Not that it matters too much but I seem to be the one that "discovered" the 3.3 buried on MFactory's site. Told Andrew a few hours later then he ordered one, as we did. We have been talking with MFactory for almost a month about various projects. I'll share more as we get a program going.
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03-22-2017, 01:02 AM
#151
The gearsets we have installed in BRZs cost around $6k for a 1-6, and typical installation fees are outlined below.
I would imagine the cost to install Miata gears would roughly mirror what we charge for the BRZ/86 AZ6, but take this with a grain of salt until we work out something firm. For that specific AZ6 we charge a flat fee of $1000 to install it, and the balance of the trans parts are inspected for excessive wear. We typically try to steer people into our basic rebuild package for that trans ($1150), since it already includes many of the consumables (1-5 synchros, 3-4 fork and sleeve), and with a new set of synchros we can detail them for better engagement from the start. Mazda is a lot more expensive on parts (esp synchros) than Toyota/Subaru, and they are unfortunately not interchangeable, so I'd have to look into what a basic build package might cost...off the cuff I'd say it would expect it to be $250ish higher.
Hope that helps!
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03-22-2017, 01:03 AM
#152
https://www.miataturbo.net/race-prep...4/#post1111222
https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...2/#post1395080
The first thread ("Gearbox options/experience") is an absolute must-read for you, MFactory, and anyone else at Jack's working on this project. It's the best and most recent synposis of our current options, the issues with those options, the various requirements for each specific application (street vs. autocross vs. road race), and lots more. I can't easily impart all of the information unto you more quickly or easily than to tell you that you absolutely must read that thread front to back.
If you are going to do only a 3-4-5 you are basically locked into OE ratios. Any tweaks will leave an odd gap between 2nd and 3rd that would not be desirable for a substantial number of customers (street cars). If you can do all 6 or at least 1-5, find posts by me or Emilio on gear ratios. 2.8/2.0/1.5/1.25/1/.85 puts you in the ballpark but we have both gone in depth on why
https://www.miataturbo.net/suspensio...2/#post1395080
The first thread ("Gearbox options/experience") is an absolute must-read for you, MFactory, and anyone else at Jack's working on this project. It's the best and most recent synposis of our current options, the issues with those options, the various requirements for each specific application (street vs. autocross vs. road race), and lots more. I can't easily impart all of the information unto you more quickly or easily than to tell you that you absolutely must read that thread front to back.
If you are going to do only a 3-4-5 you are basically locked into OE ratios. Any tweaks will leave an odd gap between 2nd and 3rd that would not be desirable for a substantial number of customers (street cars). If you can do all 6 or at least 1-5, find posts by me or Emilio on gear ratios. 2.8/2.0/1.5/1.25/1/.85 puts you in the ballpark but we have both gone in depth on why
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03-22-2017, 09:20 AM
#153
Former Vendor
Join Date: Feb 2017
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Which car is Acamas? Is it the street car? I want a review of how they compare to the 3.63 gears and a 6speed on the interstate. What rpms is cruising for 65/70/75/80mph?
I also wonder if these came from one of the factories that MiataRoadster tried to get to make them. I believe Bill said he tried a few shops in Taiwan, but none could get the QC that he wanted.
I also wonder if these came from one of the factories that MiataRoadster tried to get to make them. I believe Bill said he tried a few shops in Taiwan, but none could get the QC that he wanted.
I believe that the individual you are talking about (actually, I am almost 100% certain) was the one responsible for us having these 3.3 final drives in the first place. Note that this reply is from our "companies" perspective, NOT our "brand" (i.e MFactory):
1) Said individual contacted both MFactory and one of MFactory's US competitors at the same time
2) As we do not succumb to low-balling, said individual decided to order through the US competitor instead (read the forum link that I posted up above for background info on our "company", not our "brand")
3) The US competitor put the order through for 30 sets (which is our moq), and with all custom orders, we always ship out a prototype first to be tested
4) Said individual installed the prototype, but was not happy with the excessive "noise"
5) Because of this, we decided to have our own US facility (MFactory R&D) install one in an S2000 to see if we got the same results; we did not. What this suggests is that said individual did not shim/setup/install the ring & pinion properly
6) Being a "specialist", said individual refused to acknowledge fault, so cancelled the order with the US competitor (this is based on what the US competitor told us; we did not deal directly with said individual)
7) The US competitor basically being just a trading company, did not have the funds to "take the hit", so decided to also cancel their order with us, thus leaving us with around 15 sets (+/- a couple) of the initial prototype batch (hence the slight lack of "finished look" as mentioned by someone in the comments in this thread)
8) As anyone doing business acknowledges (on the "frontend" anyway), the customer is always right, so we just decided to let it be and not make a fuss out of it, and decided to just add the sets we had left to our online catalog and let them sell by themselves (hence no promotion/marketing)
So unless there is significant interest in proceeding with this "discontinued" project and pushing into the production stage, once the initial batch is sold, there won't be anymore available. FYI, we only have 9 sets left in our inventory.
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03-22-2017, 09:48 AM
#156
mkturbo.com
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For what it's worth, whilst there are several factories in Taiwan that have the capability and machines to make hypoid gears, there is only one manufacturer in Taiwan that specialises in the performance aftermarket (for gearing products) and is willing to produce them in small-batch quantities; us (Who are INFINITUDE? - YCW Engineering Ltd Forums). All the other factories are setup for mass-quantity/oem (i.e 500 moq)
I believe that the individual you are talking about (actually, I am almost 100% certain) was the one responsible for us having these 3.3 final drives in the first place. Note that this reply is from our "companies" perspective, NOT our "brand" (i.e MFactory):
1) Said individual contacted both MFactory and one of MFactory's US competitors at the same time
2) As we do not succumb to low-balling, said individual decided to order through the US competitor instead (read the forum link that I posted up above for background info on our "company", not our "brand")
3) The US competitor put the order through for 30 sets (which is our moq), and with all custom orders, we always ship out a prototype first to be tested
4) Said individual installed the prototype, but was not happy with the excessive "noise"
5) Because of this, we decided to have our own US facility (MFactory R&D) install one in an S2000 to see if we got the same results; we did not. What this suggests is that said individual did not shim/setup/install the ring & pinion properly
6) Being a "specialist", said individual refused to acknowledge fault, so cancelled the order with the US competitor (this is based on what the US competitor told us; we did not deal directly with said individual)
7) The US competitor basically being just a trading company, did not have the funds to "take the hit", so decided to also cancel their order with us, thus leaving us with around 15 sets (+/- a couple) of the initial prototype batch (hence the slight lack of "finished look" as mentioned by someone in the comments in this thread)
8) As anyone doing business acknowledges (on the "frontend" anyway), the customer is always right, so we just decided to let it be and not make a fuss out of it, and decided to just add the sets we had left to our online catalog and let them sell by themselves (hence no promotion/marketing)
So unless there is significant interest in proceeding with this "discontinued" project and pushing into the production stage, once the initial batch is sold, there won't be anymore available. FYI, we only have 9 sets left in our inventory.
I believe that the individual you are talking about (actually, I am almost 100% certain) was the one responsible for us having these 3.3 final drives in the first place. Note that this reply is from our "companies" perspective, NOT our "brand" (i.e MFactory):
1) Said individual contacted both MFactory and one of MFactory's US competitors at the same time
2) As we do not succumb to low-balling, said individual decided to order through the US competitor instead (read the forum link that I posted up above for background info on our "company", not our "brand")
3) The US competitor put the order through for 30 sets (which is our moq), and with all custom orders, we always ship out a prototype first to be tested
4) Said individual installed the prototype, but was not happy with the excessive "noise"
5) Because of this, we decided to have our own US facility (MFactory R&D) install one in an S2000 to see if we got the same results; we did not. What this suggests is that said individual did not shim/setup/install the ring & pinion properly
6) Being a "specialist", said individual refused to acknowledge fault, so cancelled the order with the US competitor (this is based on what the US competitor told us; we did not deal directly with said individual)
7) The US competitor basically being just a trading company, did not have the funds to "take the hit", so decided to also cancel their order with us, thus leaving us with around 15 sets (+/- a couple) of the initial prototype batch (hence the slight lack of "finished look" as mentioned by someone in the comments in this thread)
8) As anyone doing business acknowledges (on the "frontend" anyway), the customer is always right, so we just decided to let it be and not make a fuss out of it, and decided to just add the sets we had left to our online catalog and let them sell by themselves (hence no promotion/marketing)
So unless there is significant interest in proceeding with this "discontinued" project and pushing into the production stage, once the initial batch is sold, there won't be anymore available. FYI, we only have 9 sets left in our inventory.
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03-22-2017, 09:59 AM
#158
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30 sets seems like not much though. Especially if it could be paired with a transmission solution.
But I'm not in the aftermarket miata part business (but do like spending other people's money).
But I'm not in the aftermarket miata part business (but do like spending other people's money).
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03-22-2017, 10:04 AM
#159
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Join Date: Feb 2017
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Just a heads up so you are aware of this in advance: As our gears do not have as much of a helix angle as the oem, there will be slightly more noise (whine) over the oem final drive. After installation, please don't expect these to be "silent" like the oem final drive.
As with all RWD Diff builds:
1) You must shim the diff to within oem specs (always check and write down the oem spec on your specific diff before disassembling)
2) We always recommend using new diff and pinion bearings
3) You MUST replace the oem crush sleeve (if there is an aftermarket solid sleeve available, purchase one and use it, as the oem crush sleeve is relatively weak)
4) Use a good quality synthetic diff oil, such as Torco SGO (there are others though)
As with all RWD Diff builds:
1) You must shim the diff to within oem specs (always check and write down the oem spec on your specific diff before disassembling)
2) We always recommend using new diff and pinion bearings
3) You MUST replace the oem crush sleeve (if there is an aftermarket solid sleeve available, purchase one and use it, as the oem crush sleeve is relatively weak)
4) Use a good quality synthetic diff oil, such as Torco SGO (there are others though)
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03-22-2017, 10:04 AM
#160
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You are talking about cheap *** miata people. 30 sets up front is a ton, and I think a hard goal to get to. Long term if they have a trans solution also I can see them selling more then that, but it won't be quick and holding inventory sucks.
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