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Old 01-22-2013, 05:31 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by vitamin j View Post
Lol told you bro. You gotta cut the springs.
Lol, you were right!

We were so bummed we stopped with the rear shocks, but thanks to Sixshooter, I have removed original perches and have summit racing 450/300 springs on their way to rest on my eBay adjustable sleeves. Im gonna get the ride height right, as well as having a decent suspension setup for like $400!

Will post pics of before and after.

Anyone want some MSM springs?
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Old 01-24-2013, 11:06 PM   #42
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Ok, guys. Did what sixshooter suggested and knocked my existing perches off, ground off the tab so my eBay sleeve would slide down and rest on factory notch that previous perches rested on.

Installed with my new Summit Racing 300 lb springs in rear and I now have an inch of play where my car is resting on my springs, and my shock is not even engaging. I need at least an inch more of spring, or to put my original perches back on and rest my sleeves on top of that so Im not bouncing around like a cholo. Im looking for performance, and this is not acceptable.

Still, if i do that, I won't get to the ride height I'm wanting which is around 12.5" in front and 13" in rear (what FM suggests for NAs). Reminder, I have a 1990 with MSM bilsteins, that are the longest shocks (http://fatcatmotorsports.com/igaller...ck_lengths.JPG).
What do you guys suggest? Do i need to go to an 8" spring, or replace my perches (of which Ive already ground the **** off the shock), or both?

Here is the sleeve rested on shock's notch where original perch rested



Here is the inch of play after my car was resting on its tires. We tightened top nuts till we ran out of thread. We're about an inch off....

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Old 01-25-2013, 12:31 PM   #43
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It's probably too late now but you should have just cut the MSM springs and used em, or sold the MSM stuff complete and gone for something different. The shocks are the worst part of the MSM suspension, not sure if you'll be able to get them to work with aftermarket springs either.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:04 PM   #44
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It's probably too late now but you should have just cut the MSM springs and used em, or sold the MSM stuff complete and gone for something different. The shocks are the worst part of the MSM suspension, not sure if you'll be able to get them to work with aftermarket springs either.
Then why did everyone tell me to go this route? Now I have shocks that are too long and have cut the tab off to put the original perches back on so someone else can use them...

What if I sold the MSM stuff since I have the adjustable sleeves and brand new summit racing springs and bought the Hard S bilsteins? Would these work much better and give me the height Im looking for? http://949racing.com/bilsteinshocks.aspx

Last edited by Dustin; 01-25-2013 at 01:19 PM.
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Old 01-25-2013, 01:37 PM   #45
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I dunno you'll have to ask them lol. I just have MSM suspension on my NA so I told you what I did, no experience with that other stuff.
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Old 01-25-2013, 05:47 PM   #46
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I can't tell anything from either of your pics. Either take a pic of the entire assembled unit on the ground or take a pic of the assembled unit on the car with the car on the ground showing the top nut on the topside of the tophat and then from the underside of the same area with the car still on the ground.
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Old 01-25-2013, 06:40 PM   #47
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I can't tell anything from either of your pics. Either take a pic of the entire assembled unit on the ground or take a pic of the assembled unit on the car with the car on the ground showing the top nut on the topside of the tophat and then from the underside of the same area with the car still on the ground.
Ok, here is the car resting. This is the rear passenger side shock view from inside the trunk. As you can see, we have wrenched the top bolt until we ran out of thread, yet there is still an inch gap.



Here is the shock mounted from the underside. (Don't know why it uploaded upside down)



Here is an example of the finished product (note-this is a front shock since we have already installed the rears but quit so we could figure a better solution)



annnnd, here is rear ride height as it sits with custom made MSM shocks/7" 300 lb springs, perch removed with eBay sleeve

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Old 01-25-2013, 08:29 PM   #48
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From this chart it appears the NB Hard S shocks are significantly lower than my MSM shocks http://fatcatmotorsports.com/igaller...ck_lengths.JPG.

So, should I get these Hard S shocks and use my Summit Racing Springs (450f/300r) and eBay sleeves to make a coilover that will actually work with a lowered ride height? Hard Sport Bilstein Shock and Spring Assemblies

Hard Sport Bilstein Shock and Spring Assemblies
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Old 01-25-2013, 09:58 PM   #49
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Don't throw anything out yet. Are the adjusters for the rears all the way down? Are they also oriented as in your top picture with the thick lip at the bottom? If the answer to both questions is yes, either remove the bottom adjustment collar (the locking one) since you don't need it if you are all the way down to the stop. Or flip the threaded tube over and go all the way down to the bottom. If you want to use only one of those collars instead of both of them you can drill and tap a hole in the one you will use and put a bolt in it as a set screw. That will get you even lower. The Fatcat chart shows a 1" difference between your MSMs and MY Hard S shocks, but my 7" 550/350 springs are easily an inch above the bottom of the adjuster and my height is down there where you want to be.

As for the topside of the tophats, I used collars (and big nuts) as spacers because I didn't use the factory NB hardware. I'm puzzled by you having the same issue since you are using all of the proper NB pieces (you are, aren't you?). But it is no big deal to add a collar or larger nut or two to space it correctly. I'll be going out to take a couple of pics of mine in just a second.

Everything you have is workable so hang on.
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Old 01-25-2013, 10:25 PM   #50
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Old 01-26-2013, 03:35 PM   #51
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Man, Sixshooter, you have been a tremendous help. Unfortunately, I'm not able to work on my car today, but I will try the things you have mentioned and give an update in the next day or two.

Hopefully once I get all this figured out I'll be able to help all the other newbs that want to do this conversion.
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Old 01-27-2013, 04:19 PM   #52
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Do you have anything between the spring and the tophat? Some coil adjusters come with a top perch for the spring. If you had one of those on top of the spring it would need to come out.
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Old 01-28-2013, 04:54 PM   #53
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Been doing some more investigating for you. Here is a pic of MSM Bilsteins with (supposedly) 550lb front springs that are 6 inches long. He could readily fit an inch longer spring in there at that height.



These are six inchers and are 350. He has at least another 1.5 inch of adjustment there as well. Bear in mind that the softer the spring, the greater its length needs to be to function properly. He was at 12.5f 12.75r.




But if you reach a point of despair after all of this, Summit has a generous return policy and you can reorder shorter springs in the place of these. Just beware of coil bind if they aren't long enough.
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:25 AM   #54
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Great, thanks for the pics. I actually took the lock ring off my sleeves and dropped the other one all the way down and drilled it and put a screw in to work as the locking mechanism.



Here is the finished coilover. As you can see, just one ring all the way at the bottom with a locking screw. 450lb f/300lb r. 7" springs.



Im now at the height I wanted, but probably a little lower and I am riding around like a bouncy little ricer! Maybe I have gone too low? The pics you posted yesterday, is that of an early NA? My springs were about at that height on the sleeve the first time when I was still riding too high, BUT, I haven't given my springs time to settle.

Another thing, since my springs are so low on my shock, that leaves a LOT of my shock hanging out in my engine bay and trunk, thus they are now rubbing the top hats and making an awful sound. Could this be b/c I went so low my camber was effected negatively and makes the top of the shocks lean in rubbing the top hats?

Here is that awful gap I now see from possibly being too low and I bounce all over the place. Not like a nice bumpy ride you see in, say, race cars, but a pronounced bounce like you see kids that have cut their springs in their Accord. Im probably 12.5" f and 12 3/4" rear.

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Old 01-29-2013, 02:59 PM   #55
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You left out a piece and you are on the bumpstops and not the springs and shocks. There is a heavy washer missing from the bottom side of the tophat. It looks like this:



Did you have one of those?

It goes under this:

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Old 01-29-2013, 03:36 PM   #56
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That's a big bumpstop you've got there as well. Really big. That better be really soft material or it's way too tall and contributing to your poor ride quality. You need some suspension travel before the top of the shock contacts the bumpstop or it is no bueno.
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Old 01-29-2013, 03:46 PM   #57
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Yea, we left out those pieces b/c the metal piece looked as if it was going to fall into the spring. Like, it's diameter is smaller than the ID of the spring and I was scared of messing up the spring. But we did leave the rubber piece.

As far as bumpstops, those are the stock MSMs. Should I cut some off? If not, what's a good bumpstop to go with? I know everyone recommends FCM, but that much money just seems ridiculous for bumpstops.

Also, is there a thread that shows how to assemble the coilovers? That would be a tremendous help!
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:29 PM   #58
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That metal piece's middle hole is supposed to catch the shoulder on the shaft of the shock rod and go no further down. It makes the shock rod move when the car moves. Without it shocky no worky.

I would start by cutting half of that bumpstop off and see how much travel you end up with (I made my own hardware for that part from bits I had around). You need to be able to see some shock rod showing above the body of the shock. We'll get you there eventually.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:43 PM   #59
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We'll get you there eventually.
Lol, i hope so. This is stressing me out.

So, to review. Cut my bumpstops in half, and place the metal retainer back in under the rubber, under the top hat.

Ill do all of that this weekend. But this should help with the bounce? What ab all the ear-piercing squeaking? You can see in the photo in my earlier post my shock rod is actually rubbing my tophats. I guess that metal retainer will solve that problem?

Thanks for all the help once again. I continuously read how great the MSM bilsteins can be for the money...that's what's keeping me going on this project instead of ditching the whole thing.
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Old 01-29-2013, 04:51 PM   #60
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stupid question.

How should the metal washer be installed. The way it is pictured assuming the shock is in normal upright postion? Or the other way around?
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