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Question: When do I need a big brake kit?

Old 03-25-2009, 07:36 PM
  #21  
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Originally Posted by y8s View Post
mini note:

brakes (like clutches) are energy conversion devices.

brakes convert kinetic energy into heat.

in order to work, you have to be able to transfer heat effectively from the brake pad interface to the atmosphere.

if you can't get the heat OUT of the brakes, they are not effective.

so while you might think bigger brakes = bigger heat sinks, you'd be right but you'd also be missing the point that you still need to transfer heat from the disc to the atmosphere.

GET SOME DUCTS ON THAT THANG.



They would help control temp spikes even if the average was the same.
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:19 PM
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I've found that my pads wear like that too, they'll look a little less than half on the inside edge (the part you can see as you look through the spokes), when in actuality they're just about to hit the backing plate on the outside edge. Pisses me off cause I think "damn my brakes suck." But really I just need to get new pads or only inspect them if I take the wheel off.

M2cup: Are you running brake ducts from some fog light holes or just from the edge of the "mouth". And where/how are you attaching them to the upright? Pics would be awesome.
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Old 03-25-2009, 09:51 PM
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There's enough room under the stock radiator, above the undertray to squeeze them in and then just block off the space between them. The plan was to ultimately use a short/wide vent under the rad (take your pick), but they worked ok with the hose ends so we never messed with it. We then zip tied the other end to ss brakeline with a couple of zip ties to aim it at the caliper/pad/rotor.
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Old 03-25-2009, 09:55 PM
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Comp has rotor shields with hose fittings. Doppleganger has a pair. Cool stuff. One of these days I need to help him install them.
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Old 03-25-2009, 10:02 PM
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I'm looking at solutions too. Went through xp8's in a couple days. My xp10 backing plates turned bright white and the rotors are very burned after 1 day. Pad is still good but they really cooked and that was a wet day that I missed a lot of track time on. Our track has two 120-40mph, 120-50mph braking zones.

1. Absolutely eed to run ducts of some sort.
2. Looking at big brake options. I'm thinking the 11" corrado w/ stock caliper might not be enough. I'm wondering how much fab would be needed to make the wilwood civic front kit work. $566 at summit. That's dynalite 4 pots w/ aluminum hats & 11" rotors.

For really big brakes they have a 6 pot set up too. The wilwood dynapro Six looks to be just the ticket for calipers. Much larger pad surface. I have to think a larger pad surface has to help with wear, tear and heat. Those with 11.75" rotors should fit if a bracket can be made for the caliper. With aluminum hats, quality rotors and the aluminum calipers the overall weight wouldn't be any more than stock.
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:07 AM
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Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
There's enough room under the stock radiator, above the undertray to squeeze them in and then just block off the space between them. The plan was to ultimately use a short/wide vent under the rad (take your pick), but they worked ok with the hose ends so we never messed with it. We then zip tied the other end to ss brakeline with a couple of zip ties to aim it at the caliper/pad/rotor.
Sweet m2, I'll be doing that fairly soon, I'll try to snap some pics for others. I was on the edge about cutting holes in the bumper to add vents, so this is a great in between step to get some kind of benefit.
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:49 AM
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I vote against the Corrado rotor upgrade.

Just do ducting, xp12s front and rear, and the prop valve.
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Old 03-26-2009, 03:10 AM
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Originally Posted by crashnscar View Post
i vote against the corrado rotor upgrade.

Just do ducting, xp12s front and rear, and the prop valve.
+1
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Old 03-26-2009, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Ben View Post
Comp has rotor shields with hose fittings. Doppleganger has a pair. Cool stuff. One of these days I need to help him install them.
link to "comp" please. I'd like to do the ISC shields, but I has sport breakes.

Why aren't you guys running xp12's? I hope mine perform better than everyone else here.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by hustler View Post
link to "comp" please. I'd like to do the ISC shields, but I has sport breakes.

Why aren't you guys running xp12's? I hope mine perform better than everyone else here.
He was running xp12s up front, but finished those off in the first day. All he could get for the second day was xp10s, so that's what he ran.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:43 AM
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A consideration when using the ultra race compound pads is pedal (force) application. The proper curve for pedal application does wonders for pad (brake) wear by transitioning the pad from a static state to the surface of the rotor, providing smooth transition to load and allowing the pad to reach operating temp before full load. High temp pads actually do a poorer job of braking when they're not at optimum temp. They wear quicker and tear rotors up quicker. The chart below demonstrates two braking pressure curves, the blue (brakes are hammered) is a quick load up with minimal transition and heat time, while the magenta curve benefits the pad as stated above. The benefits of proper braking routine compound when you consider load transfers - which impact both brake AND tire performance. A better gripping tire means shorter stopping distances. For this reason the magenta curve will always provide a shorter braking distance, while using less.

[Chart: Curves represent the degree of force applied Y (vertical) over time X (horizontal).]
Attached Thumbnails Question: When do I need a big brake kit?-picture-4.png  

Last edited by m2cupcar; 03-26-2009 at 11:04 AM.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:52 AM
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Great info m2cars1cup!

What is it with all the non-labeled graphs though. I appreciate a good graph as much as anyone, but who in the hell makes a worthwhile graph that doesn't have labeled axises.

Often we can follow due to explanation, but if you explanation was missing, that graph could be comparing a NBO2 sensor step function to some weird square function WBO2, with the shaded areas being what's below stoich.

EDIT:

I understand you probably grabbed this from somewhere, not dissing you at all...just saying when we present data, we should do so in a proper manner. It's pretty easy to open it up in paint and add what will effectively convey your point. I've been seeing a lot of VAGUE graphs posted lately.
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Old 03-26-2009, 11:15 AM
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Originally Posted by gospeed81 View Post
2cars1cup

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Old 03-26-2009, 11:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Braineack View Post
Would that count as DEI?




ewww
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Old 03-26-2009, 01:56 PM
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Originally Posted by cueball1 View Post

1. Absolutely eed to run ducts of some sort.
2. Looking at big brake options. I'm thinking the 11" corrado w/ stock caliper might not be enough. I'm wondering how much fab would be needed to make the wilwood civic front kit work. $566 at summit. That's dynalite 4 pots w/ aluminum hats & 11" rotors.
You can get the calipers for $125-$150 or so from a variety of sources. 11" rotors can be had from a late NB for what, $25 each? Then it's just a matter of fabricating the brackets, which, alas, is the difficult part. If you can machine them yourself, it's no big deal, but if you're paying somebody to do it, expect it to get pricey fast.
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Old 03-26-2009, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by m2cupcar View Post
Why don't you guys run hawk blues at the track events? You're not doing anything less than racing IMO.
Hawk Blue:
-600 MOT
-Eats the **** out of rotors
-Highly corrosive brake dust
-Unuseable on the street due to rotor wear

Carbotech XP12:
-1950 MOT
-Easy on rotors
-Brake dust is non-corrosive, even after you get it wet and let it sit
-Useable on the street due to their excellent cold bite characteristics, low noise, and mild rotor wear

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Last edited by Savington; 03-26-2009 at 03:04 PM.
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Old 04-02-2009, 03:40 PM
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get willwoods !! one thing you dont want to be cheap on is brakes. i mean if you are going fast you are going to want to stop fast,, if not you might end up loosing your ride in a crash and have to spend more money fixing body parts.. spend money on good brakes and hopefully never have the accident.
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Old 04-02-2009, 03:42 PM
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oh by the way savington you COP on sleeper mx5 look great.. and i like your splitter set up. you do some great work.
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Old 04-02-2009, 06:52 PM
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Originally Posted by locomonkeyboricua View Post
get willwoods !! one thing you dont want to be cheap on is brakes. i mean if you are going fast you are going to want to stop fast,, if not you might end up loosing your ride in a crash and have to spend more money fixing body parts.. spend money on good brakes and hopefully never have the accident.
Wilwoods are expensive and I don't believe they are necessary.
Hell, I'm not even sure the Corrado rotor upgrade is necessary with other components being correct (pads, prop valve, ducting).
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Old 04-02-2009, 09:46 PM
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Originally Posted by crashnscar View Post
Wilwoods are expensive and I don't believe they are necessary.
Hell, I'm not even sure the Corrado rotor upgrade is necessary with other components being correct (pads, prop valve, ducting).
Expensive??

Wilwood Forged Billet Dynalite Calipers : Wilwood Dynalite Calipers : Wilwood Forged Dynalite Calipers

$125 a caliper isn't expensive... $1200 for 2 of those and 2 rotors is expensive..
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