sub 2k suspension advice
02-14-2011, 05:05 PM
#21
Do the XIDA CS's come with shock dyno charts? I remember reading that the 12 step adjustment on the CS's is custom fabbed by/for 949 instead of sourcing the tops of the shocks from AST ($$$).
The reason I ask is I wonder how accurate the steps are with the custom 949 tops, like if I set all the shocks to 9, would some act like they're set to 4 or 12? I'm not sure when combining non AST parts with an AST shock what kind of compromises you can encounter.
I'm not bashing the XIDA's, i just want to learn the most I can before I vote with my wallet.
The reason I ask is I wonder how accurate the steps are with the custom 949 tops, like if I set all the shocks to 9, would some act like they're set to 4 or 12? I'm not sure when combining non AST parts with an AST shock what kind of compromises you can encounter.
I'm not bashing the XIDA's, i just want to learn the most I can before I vote with my wallet.
The click you detect on any damper is just a detent on a shaft. There is no accurate or inaccurate, as the detent has no bearing on valving. You are simply selecting a particular spot in the damping adjustment range. Consider the shift lever in your car as the adjuster ****. Changing the length of the lever or shift bushings does not change gear ratios. We could make the Xida's 4 clicks or 40 clicks. The total range would not change. What is important is the shim stack, valving at the other end. We use the standard detent that all 5100's come with. The range of adjustments was spec'd by myself and Brian at AST.
Representative dyno plots are posted for all to see on our website.
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Last edited by emilio700; 02-14-2011 at 08:20 PM.
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02-14-2011, 05:23 PM
#23
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I should probably get a ride with someone with a really good setup on a bumpy road. I have a feeling my ride is stiffer than it should be at 450/300. Over some bumps/dips on the freeway, it feels like my rear is catching air. 
Seemed to do this after I got ES bushings all around...
Seemed to do this after I got ES bushings all around...
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02-15-2011, 02:11 AM
#27
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STFU Hustler, lol. Fancy pants had no bump stops all year with longer MSM Bilsteins. Once your on man spring rates you can go no bump stop with ICS hats.
Thread Drift///
Xida's get you laid.
Thread Drift///
Xida's get you laid.
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02-15-2011, 09:50 AM
#30
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Plus adding ISC racing tops could potentially make coil bind worse. It really depends what's happening under MartinezA92's car.
I have a feeling that the spring perch would rip off the shock before a control arm would bend however.
I have a feeling that the spring perch would rip off the shock before a control arm would bend however.
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08-05-2011, 05:46 PM
#31
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Thread resurrection!
Update: Now stuck between the Xida CS's and the Ohlin DFV's. I had a chance to drive a car with the new ohlins today (the ones that came out last year) Holy moley! The first ohlins weren't too bad except for the rear shock travel, apparently that's fixed?
Yes, I'm taking a while to buy suspension since I started this thread, money doesn't flow free here.. had to do a rollbar/6ULs+tires/maintenance/pads and lapping days while trickling in the mods.
Does anybody have any experience with BOTH of these setups? new ohlins vs xida CS's? Yes I'm aware the Ohlins are like $500-600 more....
Warning: I tend to over-think a lot of things, especially when it comes to what I spend my money on instead of just enjoying it.. which is why i'm nit picking between these setups, but i WILL pull the trigger this Sept.
Update: Now stuck between the Xida CS's and the Ohlin DFV's. I had a chance to drive a car with the new ohlins today (the ones that came out last year) Holy moley! The first ohlins weren't too bad except for the rear shock travel, apparently that's fixed?
Yes, I'm taking a while to buy suspension since I started this thread, money doesn't flow free here.. had to do a rollbar/6ULs+tires/maintenance/pads and lapping days while trickling in the mods.
Does anybody have any experience with BOTH of these setups? new ohlins vs xida CS's? Yes I'm aware the Ohlins are like $500-600 more....
Warning: I tend to over-think a lot of things, especially when it comes to what I spend my money on instead of just enjoying it.. which is why i'm nit picking between these setups, but i WILL pull the trigger this Sept.
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08-06-2011, 01:00 AM
#32
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Xida CS 550/350, Duel springs, NB hats, 12.25"f/12.6"r (FM front bar, Aurora Links and stock rr bar, 225-15 R-S3).
^ this set up rides so well. It soaks up 1" bumps mid corner like they were not there. Running to grocery store it is lincoln-like comfortable. Our spring rates are pretty soft compared to what others run for Xida but this is mainly a dd.
VERY fast through corners.
No. To be clear it is SCARY fast through corners.
Scare the livin' CRAP outta you fast through corners.
^ this set up rides so well. It soaks up 1" bumps mid corner like they were not there. Running to grocery store it is lincoln-like comfortable. Our spring rates are pretty soft compared to what others run for Xida but this is mainly a dd.
VERY fast through corners.
No. To be clear it is SCARY fast through corners.
Scare the livin' CRAP outta you fast through corners.
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08-06-2011, 01:28 AM
#33
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No doubt the XIDA/ASTs are just as good as the Ohlins package, for $700 less.
I can honestly say that I think my XIDAs are worth a minimum of 1 second at every single track in California/Nevada, compared to my old Koni 8041 Races which were the hot **** when I bought them.
I can honestly say that I think my XIDAs are worth a minimum of 1 second at every single track in California/Nevada, compared to my old Koni 8041 Races which were the hot **** when I bought them.
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08-06-2011, 02:44 AM
#34
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Are you buying the Ohlin's from a vendor that races miata's? My point is that Emilio took a good shock from a good company and tailored it to his exact specs. To equal this you would need to buy Ohlin's from a vender that custom orders them to their specs for the miata aplication. If not you are getting a Solid Works designed shock with low/no test hours in race/track conditions. Not saying Ohlin's is bad, just not optimized.
One more point I would like to make about shocks for track duty. What did the Targa car run at Miata's at MRLS on AFCO ? What did the 949racing rental run at MRLS? What did a car on FCM run? The 949 rental and Targa car are spec'd closer than you would think. If I had this kind of money to drop on coilovers I'd want what the fast guys are on. Was anyone even on Ohlins?
One more point I would like to make about shocks for track duty. What did the Targa car run at Miata's at MRLS on AFCO ? What did the 949racing rental run at MRLS? What did a car on FCM run? The 949 rental and Targa car are spec'd closer than you would think. If I had this kind of money to drop on coilovers I'd want what the fast guys are on. Was anyone even on Ohlins?
Last edited by jacob300zx; 08-06-2011 at 02:55 AM.
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08-06-2011, 10:51 AM
#35
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I see the argument that Ohlins doesn't have the custom tailored suspension that Emilio gave the Xidas for the Miata platform. But, I doubt with as long as Ohlins has been around, that they lack any knowledge in making a 50/50 weight distribution, lightweight, RWD car handle, especially when you look at their history in motosport and auto racing.
So really, I'm leaning to the xida's due to the cost factor, plus the upgradability through Emilios shop.
Will AST service Xidas? AST is still a young company and I think I want my shock absorber company to be around a while if I'm spending this kind of coin when I want to do revalves, etc. Which I think is a legitimate concern.
I think the two coilovers just have very different target markets. The Ohlins target the daily driver and weekend track warrior who just wants to do a sweep of clicks on his coilovers to have something that works on both very well. The Xidas are primarily really just designed, optimized/tuned, etc for track duty. The fact that people say they work off the track is just a bonus.
So really, I'm leaning to the xida's due to the cost factor, plus the upgradability through Emilios shop.
Will AST service Xidas? AST is still a young company and I think I want my shock absorber company to be around a while if I'm spending this kind of coin when I want to do revalves, etc. Which I think is a legitimate concern.
I think the two coilovers just have very different target markets. The Ohlins target the daily driver and weekend track warrior who just wants to do a sweep of clicks on his coilovers to have something that works on both very well. The Xidas are primarily really just designed, optimized/tuned, etc for track duty. The fact that people say they work off the track is just a bonus.
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08-09-2011, 12:30 PM
#37
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I see the argument that Ohlins doesn't have the custom tailored suspension that Emilio gave the Xidas for the Miata platform. But, I doubt with as long as Ohlins has been around, that they lack any knowledge in making a 50/50 weight distribution, lightweight, RWD car handle, especially when you look at their history in motosport and auto racing.
So really, I'm leaning to the xida's due to the cost factor, plus the upgradability through Emilios shop.
Will AST service Xidas? AST is still a young company and I think I want my shock absorber company to be around a while if I'm spending this kind of coin when I want to do revalves, etc. Which I think is a legitimate concern.
I think the two coilovers just have very different target markets. The Ohlins target the daily driver and weekend track warrior who just wants to do a sweep of clicks on his coilovers to have something that works on both very well. The Xidas are primarily really just designed, optimized/tuned, etc for track duty. The fact that people say they work off the track is just a bonus.
So really, I'm leaning to the xida's due to the cost factor, plus the upgradability through Emilios shop.
Will AST service Xidas? AST is still a young company and I think I want my shock absorber company to be around a while if I'm spending this kind of coin when I want to do revalves, etc. Which I think is a legitimate concern.
I think the two coilovers just have very different target markets. The Ohlins target the daily driver and weekend track warrior who just wants to do a sweep of clicks on his coilovers to have something that works on both very well. The Xidas are primarily really just designed, optimized/tuned, etc for track duty. The fact that people say they work off the track is just a bonus.
There is a lot more to damper engineering than weight distribution. It's all crazy CFD engineering...and teams pay lots of money to get the best.
Don't draw a line between comfort and track worthiness. The best suspension keeps the tire on the ground the most, with the least change in contact-patch pressure and this is also the most comfortable. Before the Xida shocks Miatas didn't have a shock that worked well on rough surfaces.
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03-05-2012, 11:24 PM
#38
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Thread revival!
I picked up a sweet deal on revalved R-pkg bilsteins last October and have been using them in the meantime which have served me well for a DD/Track toy.
Now I have like 3k to spend on suspension, and I'm REALLY FREAKING STUCK between the Ohlins DFV and the Xida-S.
I've been calling around, asking various revalving shops who service both Ohlins and AST, and they all clump AST/Moton/JRZ together, but put Penske and Ohlins as #1 and #2 respectively, and they all say for someone who drives their car on non-track roads, that it's a no-brainer to buy ohlins. All the Ohlin raving reviews on the net don't help AST too much.
Brian at PSI Performanceshock.com (pretty reputable I think) swore up and down about how amazing Ohlins are, their build quality is second to none, they last forever even though they have a 2yr warranty. Also ohlins actually invents new creative tech like DFV where JRZ/Moton/AST are using 15 year old technology. (his words, summarized)
I know the AST's might give me marginally better lap times, but the Ohlins are actually a little cheaper. I was looking at Xida S w/ 550/350 and the helper springs.
I'm confused, if someone who has driven both can help me, I'd really appreciate it. The only AST/Ohlin miata comparison is on clubroadster (gah). I really want the AST to be a better setup, but everything I've been told with my research suggest otherwise. :(
I picked up a sweet deal on revalved R-pkg bilsteins last October and have been using them in the meantime which have served me well for a DD/Track toy.
Now I have like 3k to spend on suspension, and I'm REALLY FREAKING STUCK between the Ohlins DFV and the Xida-S.
I've been calling around, asking various revalving shops who service both Ohlins and AST, and they all clump AST/Moton/JRZ together, but put Penske and Ohlins as #1 and #2 respectively, and they all say for someone who drives their car on non-track roads, that it's a no-brainer to buy ohlins. All the Ohlin raving reviews on the net don't help AST too much.
Brian at PSI Performanceshock.com (pretty reputable I think) swore up and down about how amazing Ohlins are, their build quality is second to none, they last forever even though they have a 2yr warranty. Also ohlins actually invents new creative tech like DFV where JRZ/Moton/AST are using 15 year old technology. (his words, summarized)
I know the AST's might give me marginally better lap times, but the Ohlins are actually a little cheaper. I was looking at Xida S w/ 550/350 and the helper springs.
I'm confused, if someone who has driven both can help me, I'd really appreciate it. The only AST/Ohlin miata comparison is on clubroadster (gah). I really want the AST to be a better setup, but everything I've been told with my research suggest otherwise. :(
Last edited by Joe Mauch; 03-05-2012 at 11:30 PM. Reason: few sentences added before anyone replies
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03-06-2012, 12:07 AM
#39
Thread revival!
I picked up a sweet deal on revalved R-pkg bilsteins last October and have been using them in the meantime which have served me well for a DD/Track toy.
Now I have like 3k to spend on suspension, and I'm REALLY FREAKING STUCK between the Ohlins DFV and the Xida-S.
I've been calling around, asking various revalving shops who service both Ohlins and AST, and they all clump AST/Moton/JRZ together, but put Penske and Ohlins as #1 and #2 respectively, and they all say for someone who drives their car on non-track roads, that it's a no-brainer to buy ohlins. All the Ohlin raving reviews on the net don't help AST too much.
Brian at PSI Performanceshock.com (pretty reputable I think) swore up and down about how amazing Ohlins are, their build quality is second to none, they last forever even though they have a 2yr warranty. Also ohlins actually invents new creative tech like DFV where JRZ/Moton/AST are using 15 year old technology. (his words, summarized)
I know the AST's might give me marginally better lap times, but the Ohlins are actually a little cheaper. I was looking at Xida S w/ 550/350 and the helper springs.
I'm confused, if someone who has driven both can help me, I'd really appreciate it. The only AST/Ohlin miata comparison is on clubroadster (gah). I really want the AST to be a better setup, but everything I've been told with my research suggest otherwise. :(
I picked up a sweet deal on revalved R-pkg bilsteins last October and have been using them in the meantime which have served me well for a DD/Track toy.
Now I have like 3k to spend on suspension, and I'm REALLY FREAKING STUCK between the Ohlins DFV and the Xida-S.
I've been calling around, asking various revalving shops who service both Ohlins and AST, and they all clump AST/Moton/JRZ together, but put Penske and Ohlins as #1 and #2 respectively, and they all say for someone who drives their car on non-track roads, that it's a no-brainer to buy ohlins. All the Ohlin raving reviews on the net don't help AST too much.
Brian at PSI Performanceshock.com (pretty reputable I think) swore up and down about how amazing Ohlins are, their build quality is second to none, they last forever even though they have a 2yr warranty. Also ohlins actually invents new creative tech like DFV where JRZ/Moton/AST are using 15 year old technology. (his words, summarized)
I know the AST's might give me marginally better lap times, but the Ohlins are actually a little cheaper. I was looking at Xida S w/ 550/350 and the helper springs.
I'm confused, if someone who has driven both can help me, I'd really appreciate it. The only AST/Ohlin miata comparison is on clubroadster (gah). I really want the AST to be a better setup, but everything I've been told with my research suggest otherwise. :(
40% more stroke than the DFV
Coaxial perches
Torrington bearings for springs
Dual springs
Lifetime limited warranty
Xidas are valved for competition use with race tires. DFV, not.
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