Suspension hierarchy - Page 3 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain discuss the wondrous effects of boost and your miata...

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 12-23-2009, 10:54 AM   #41
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Houston
Posts: 2,904
Total Cats: 4
Default

dont forget these mega $$ so called top end pieces can still suck on compression and dampening for the spring rates they sell.

I just put in 550/350 gc with revalved bilsteins that can outperforme and last 1000+ setups
Pitlab77 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 12:35 PM   #42
Senior Member
iTrader: (5)
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Atlanta
Posts: 581
Total Cats: 33
Default

Where is everyone getting $800 for used Tein Flexes? I typically see them at $900-$1100; that's what the past few here have sold for.

$900 - https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t41020/
$1100 - https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t40615/
$900 - https://www.miataturbo.net/forum/t15372/

We might want to revise our estimate. This is important, as I will be selling a set soon
nickt93 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-23-2009, 04:47 PM   #43
meatbag
iTrader: (50)
 
gospeed81's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 7,357
Total Cats: 26
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickt93 View Post
This is important, as I will be selling a set soon
I'll give you $800 shipped for them.



This has turned into a great breakdown. I can't count how many times someone has asked what kind of setup they should use to eventually step up to better suspension. I looks like I'm at the best beginner value, and could easily step up to mid-pack by keeping my collars and one set of springs (450s on shelf for rear), and just replacing the shocks with Koni Race and ordering stiffer fronts.
gospeed81 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-20-2010, 06:14 AM   #44
Newb
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Fransisco, CA
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default

250 - racelands
300 - used bilsteins, ebay coilover 450/350 - value
400 - used FM's stage 2.5 v1
450 - tokico illumina,ebay coilover 450/350
450 - kyb agx,ebay coils,qa1 350/250,nb tophats
500 - used bilsteins, ebay collars, qa1 springs 700/400, nb top hats
750 - koni sports, collars, qa1 springs
800 - revalved bilsteins, ebay collars, qa1 springs 700/400, nb top hats
800 - used tein flex - value
850 - tein basic
930 - P5 sportdrive
940 - FM's stage 1.5 v2
1000 - D2 custom valved and sprung
1100 - tein ss
1129 - Stance GR+
1200 - koni race, collars, qa1 springs - value, better than flex IMO
1400 - bilstein pss9
1500 - tein flex
1650 - fatcat - the best street setup money can buy
1900 - jic magic a2
1800 - tein mono flex
2000 - afco
2100 - v2 fatcats
2350 - Ohlins PCV
2700 - xida s
3000 - Ohlins DFV
3600 - Moton Club Sports
3700?- JRZ Double Adjustable
3800 - xida - the best money can buy
3960 - Koni 2812

Looks like you can get the JRZ Double adjustable shocks for 3050, add GC Coilover kit, and some springs. Sitting around that price I quoted. Just curious, but has anyone had experience with the JRZ units? The single adjustable shocks are also quite inexpensive for our cars, weighing in at 1700$ a set. Competition for the Ohlins PCV?
Travisivart190 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-03-2010, 06:59 PM   #45
Elite Member
iTrader: (4)
 
MartinezA92's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Mountain View, CA
Posts: 1,702
Total Cats: 28
Default

The FM kit better then used Tein Flex? I have the FM kit and the only thing I have to compare it to is stock suspension. I was thinking of upgrading to some tein flexs.
MartinezA92 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-04-2010, 10:12 AM   #46
Newb
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
-Revalved FCM Bilsteins are the best riding suspension, hands down, end of story. Try a set, it will blow your mind. They are spendy, though.
Could you elaborate a bit more on what makes them so good. I'm in the market for suspension and the car will be 95% street 5% track, so this sounds pretty interesting. I'm also considering Stuart Development revalve GB which I didn't see on the list.
crazygambit is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2010, 08:04 AM   #47
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Davie, Florida
Posts: 66
Total Cats: 3
Default

I just did this swap and found XIDA-S (700/450) >>> Tein Flex (560/390). The Teins were fine, but the XIDA-S setup yields a more supple ride and was more planted over bumps and curbing. This lead to increased driver confidence and lower lap times.

Also, sold the Teins for $1k to a good friend. I also provided sway bar bracket installation (his OEM brackets were torn out) and suspension setup help.
CoralDoc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-05-2010, 02:52 PM   #48
Elite Member
iTrader: (3)
 
AbeFM's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 3,048
Total Cats: 8
Default

I've had, in order ('00 LS):
1) Stock blacks
2) NA-AGX's on FM springs (~375/250), fm sways
3) added turbo, returned to stock rear sway
4) Koni "race" 500/375 sports ravalved to race specs (but tall body)
5) OEM shocks, cut springs
6) 750/500 bilstiens (revalved @ bilstien - never do this!)
7) 500/375 bilstiens
8) 750/500 koni "race"
9) 750/500 koni "race" plus hyperflex bushings

Opinions:
1) not terrible, needs more sway

2) Felt much tighter. Driver's car, for douching around on the street. adjustability was awesome, even if it didn't work right it was nice to loosen it up for passengers.

3) Self explanatory. made springs feel way soft again

4) Probably the best car I've ever driven. SO silky smooth. It was more floppy than the AGX, even with stiffer springs, but you just stuck and stuck and couldn't come lose. Dips which would send me sliding had no effect on my course through the turn. Initial turn in was way soft though - like you needed WAY more swaybar, or, much stiffer springs (only 500 lbs was as much as the race valving supports)

5) Surprisingly good. Nowhere near great. I would have to drive this back to back with the FM set up to really rate it, 4 years in between weakened my memory. But it was fun, gave the car more of what it needed while other shocks were being worked on.

6) Worst car, hands down, ever. Welding the a-arms in place would at least not allow the car to build up bounces to fling you into space. Never let bilstien touch your shocks. It's worth getting into a fist fight over. They suck. Initial turn in was minorly improved, but I had to plan my routes around road conditions. A few days and I think I had my fillings replaced.

7) Livable. Rather, drivable. I rarely considered pulling over and getting a tow. Still made the car much much slower because wheels would leave the ground and stay there, so would the car.

8) Awesome! Slightly underdamped, but the higher spring rates overcame the sucking in the initial turn in. Somewhat. Still needs more help. Seriously looking at FCM. These konis just have an amazing, BMW feeling. So soft. Everyone who rides in the passenger seat tenses before big bumps, then realizes there is no need to.

9) Interesting. Mostly, I notice the car flopping around a lot. It really swings. It feels... not quite like there's no sways, but certainly that ALL the work of the suspension is now being done by the springs and shocks... and that they aren't up to it. It's a bit squirmy, too, but that could be the T1-R's. Considering revalving the bilstiens, but some of the other options on here sound good? I just want some of that AGX feeling of turn the wheel and the car turns.... but without breaking traction all the time. :-)
AbeFM is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2010, 04:24 PM   #49
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (31)
 
Savington's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 14,360
Total Cats: 1,323
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazygambit View Post
Could you elaborate a bit more on what makes them so good. I'm in the market for suspension and the car will be 95% street 5% track, so this sounds pretty interesting. I'm also considering Stuart Development revalve GB which I didn't see on the list.
In a word, ride quality. It's kind of hard to describe, but it's comparable to a BMW 3-series as far as ride quality goes.
Savington is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2010, 06:39 PM   #50
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 56
Total Cats: 0
Default

I know this thread is a little old but who has the best price for Koni race /collar/qa1 spring set up?

Looked around but im sure someone on here has a good place they can recommend
el maestro is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-28-2010, 07:20 PM   #51
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Travisivart190 View Post
Just curious, but has anyone had experience with the JRZ units? The single adjustable shocks are also quite inexpensive for our cars, weighing in at 1700$ a set.
ExZ3Driver/Matt Andrews has those I believe and they were set-up by Robispec. I looked into get a set of those JRZ's a while ago and ended up going with used Tein Flex...what a waste.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2010, 01:14 AM   #52
Junior Member
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Bay Area, CA and Portland, OR
Posts: 105
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crazygambit View Post
Could you elaborate a bit more on what makes them so good. I'm in the market for suspension and the car will be 95% street 5% track, so this sounds pretty interesting. I'm also considering Stuart Development revalve GB which I didn't see on the list.
I recently put in a set of FCM 375/275s and a 1inch FM bar with no rear bar. The car used to have AGXs on stock springs with stock sways. I also have the butterfly and Energy Suspension bushings.

My car is completely composed, responsive, and predictable up to about 95, possibly higher but I haven't dared find out. The funny thing is that the car is now dramatically more comfortable than before. The best description I can offer is that before the car felt that like it was smacking against the road and it felt rather harsh. Now the car feels like its conforming to the road, so bumps are definitely transmitted to the passengers, but there isn't any sensation of impact. Over anything but the harshest potholes, the car feels composed. My friends and family far prefer the new ride, and I like the dramatic increase in precision, grip, and control.
gaius49 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2010, 02:19 AM   #53
Newb
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
ExZ3Driver/Matt Andrews has those I believe and they were set-up by Robispec. I looked into get a set of those JRZ's a while ago and ended up going with used Tein Flex...what a waste.
I recently installed a set on my 10AE (about 2 months and 4 autocrosses ago).

Currently running 700/450 2.25 ID hypercos and 1 inch ohlins bumpstops. I run a 1.125 RB front bar and no rear bar.

The JRZ's are longer than most miata shocks and need the ISC tophats to function correctly. I then added shims and the short bumpstop to keep the travel just short serious liner rub in the fronts and suspension-arm to body contact in the rear. This maintains good droop travel and keeps the shock operating in the middle of its travel--where its most linear.

ISC doesn't list it on the site, but they can make tophats--for a charge--that fit the front of an NB. The JRZ's from ISC come with 2.5 inch perches, 2.25 inch perches can be had--once again for a charge.

I like the shocks a lot, they are quite smooth over high-shock-speed irregularities. Very similar to the AST's I have driven. I'm not sure what accounts for the difference, but my car feels much better under initial braking and trail breaking than an AST equipped miata with the same rates and bar. I need to drive that car back to back some time.

The JRZ's are also very light--Even with the steel tophats and 7-inch springs, the coilovers were 7 lbs front and 6 lbs rear.
zozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2010, 11:01 PM   #54
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zozo View Post
The JRZ's are longer than most miata shocks and need the ISC tophats to function correctly. I then added shims and the short bumpstop to keep the travel just short serious liner rub in the fronts and suspension-arm to body contact in the rear. This maintains good droop travel and keeps the shock operating in the middle of its travel--where its most linear.
For the money on those JRZ's that are too long, why not go with 949/AST?

My reviews for both cars:
  • Stock (blown so they had to come off)
  • Spax "coilover" (they were $300)
  • Bilstein HD/GC 450/375 (oh dear god my kidneys, good on a glass smooth track)
  • Tokico/1.6 springs (comfy, not enough high-speed compression damping for comfort, too little rear compression damping)
  • Bilstein HD/Stock 1.6 spings (great for daily)
  • Bilstein HD/MSM springs/FMC bushings/NB & FM mounts (great for daily but too tall; incredibly good balance and comfort)
  • Tein Flex 10k/7k (industry standard, jumps off curbing, no real adjustment, needs more front and rear compression on the track; car feels a little sketchy over bumps but sticks pretty good for the money; I was fine with this shock but had a deal come up that I could not deny for the AST)
  • AST 5100 700/400 (smooth as silk on the highway; on the track they are ????)

I have 4-hours of test/tune on Friday then 90-minutes of seat time on Saturday to provide my review.

When 949 releases those Xida "club sports" its going to crush the Miata suspension market.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-15-2010, 11:06 PM   #55
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,174
Total Cats: 2,575
Default

raceland>all
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 12:19 AM   #56
Newb
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
For the money on those JRZ's that are too long, why not go with 949/AST?
. . . .[*]AST 5100 700/400 (smooth as silk on the highway; on the track they are???
They are not "too long." They are longer than other shortened miata coilover shocks. They and are designed to work with the ISC tophats (ISC is the only place that sells miata JRZs).

Because of its length, A JRZ in an extended tophat gets more overall travel--in bump and droop--than a shortened shock (like the 5100s). I also mentioned the length to clarify that if someone budgets for the JRZ, they need to budget for shocks + tophats + springs.

Why did I buy JRZs? especially when Vorschlag is here in Dallas? Because I wanted the most reliable, high-end monotube I could get for ~2.5-3K [ DA Motons or DA monotube JRZs (~5K) were out of my price range]. The JRZs have proven reliblity, ISC has been racing--and winning--with these shocks on their road racing rentals for many years.


Sean
zozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 12:27 AM   #57
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by zozo View Post
They are not "too long." They are longer than other shortened miata coilover shocks. They and are designed to work with the ISC tophats (ISC is the only place that sells miata JRZs).

Because of its length, A JRZ in an extended tophat gets more overall travel--in bump and droop--than a shortened shock (like the 5100s). I also mentioned the length to clarify that if someone budgets for the JRZ, they need to budget for shocks + tophats + springs.

Why did I buy JRZs? especially when Vorschlag is here in Dallas? Because I wanted the most reliable, high-end monotube I could get for ~2.5-3K [ DA Motons or DA monotube JRZs (~5K) were out of my price range]. The JRZs have proven reliblity, ISC has been racing--and winning--with these shocks on their road racing rentals for many years.


Sean
Ah, now I understand. I use a similar mount on my daily driver. Do you run at MSR frequently? What kind of WHP do you make and what lap times?
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-16-2010, 12:52 AM   #58
Newb
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 7
Total Cats: 0
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
Ah, now I understand. I use a similar mount on my daily driver. Do you run at MSR frequently? What kind of WHP do you make and what lap times?
Autox only. Currently, building a 10ae for STR class. The power right now is stock and will only be marginally higher when the car is finished.
zozo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 12:34 AM   #59
Elite Member
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Little Rock, AR
Posts: 3,109
Total Cats: 127
Default

250 - racelands
300 - used bilsteins, ebay coilover 450/350 - value
400 - used FM's stage 2.5 v1
450 - tokico illumina,ebay coilover 450/350
450 - kyb agx,ebay coils,qa1 350/250,nb tophats
500 - used bilsteins, ebay collars, qa1 springs 700/400, nb top hats
595 - FM V-max
750 - koni sports, collars, qa1 springs
800 - revalved bilsteins, ebay collars, qa1 springs 700/400, nb top hats
800 - used tein flex - value
850 - tein basic
930 - P5 sportdrive
940 - FM's stage 1.5 v2
1000 - D2 custom valved and sprung
1100 - tein ss
1129 - Stance GR+
1200 - koni race, collars, qa1 springs - value, better than flex IMO
1400 - bilstein pss9
1500 - tein flex
1650 - fatcat - the best street setup money can buy
1799 - Xida CS *
1800 - tein mono flex
1900 - jic magic a2
2000 - afco
2100 - v2 fatcats
2350 - Ohlins PCV
2700 - xida s
3000 - Ohlins DFV
3600 - Moton Club Sports
3700?- JRZ Double Adjustable
3800 - xida - the best money can buy
3960 - Koni 2812
jacob300zx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-14-2010, 04:16 AM   #60
Elite Member
iTrader: (7)
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Gainesville,Fl
Posts: 3,354
Total Cats: 7
Default

Damn I went from FM 1.5 to FM V-maxx. Now I want revalved Bilsteins with 750/300. Haha!
turotufas is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 08:58 AM
Hey everyone another n00b here Big_gumby Meet and Greet 80 10-05-2015 05:06 PM
3rd Time's a Charm...hopefully. zephyrusaurai Meet and Greet 2 09-28-2015 11:59 PM


Tags
21st place ribbon, dicks, fat pat, flat out!, miata's win because of me, participation medal

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:08 PM.