There's too many coilover options (11 page thread to explain 80 page thread)
08-13-2018, 03:20 PM
#142
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If I was a manufacturer of a product that had already done research and design testing I would not waste my product on someone else's test. I would allow them to buy it and test it like Consumer Reports does but there is no reason to throw away a perfectly good set of shocks off my retail sales shelf.
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08-13-2018, 03:27 PM
#143
Jerrick, Emillio, Keith (not sure if you are on this board), Ryan/Brian (Good-Win),
Would you provide a set of CRD+ /Track, Xida, Fox, Vmaxx, Feal coil-overs to someone agreed upon to be neutral in this to be tested?
There are several characteristics that are important and everyone wants to know how well these setups would go against each other. I see important items as:
- best lap time that can be achieved in the same car
- street comfort
- adjustability
- parts availability
- warranty
- price
I mean if you are sure about your product being competitive, this seems like a good way to show it. I understand that each set cost $$ and there would be no expectation of giving them away for good - they would be returned (we can even pitch in to cover shipping cost for whoever is going to be doing testing), and you can provide a previously installed set if you want.
Would you provide a set of CRD+ /Track, Xida, Fox, Vmaxx, Feal coil-overs to someone agreed upon to be neutral in this to be tested?
There are several characteristics that are important and everyone wants to know how well these setups would go against each other. I see important items as:
- best lap time that can be achieved in the same car
- street comfort
- adjustability
- parts availability
- warranty
- price
I mean if you are sure about your product being competitive, this seems like a good way to show it. I understand that each set cost $$ and there would be no expectation of giving them away for good - they would be returned (we can even pitch in to cover shipping cost for whoever is going to be doing testing), and you can provide a previously installed set if you want.
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08-13-2018, 04:37 PM
#145
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lol at this thread.
The truth is that Emilio/Andrew and some other guys on the forum could drive a shitty BC setup to close to XIDA times around a track (all things equal). But that shitty BC setup is going to be less consistent, less reliable, less comfortable, etc.
OP, you're going to buy a poverty setup anyway. Why did you even bother starting this thread?
The truth is that Emilio/Andrew and some other guys on the forum could drive a shitty BC setup to close to XIDA times around a track (all things equal). But that shitty BC setup is going to be less consistent, less reliable, less comfortable, etc.
OP, you're going to buy a poverty setup anyway. Why did you even bother starting this thread?
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08-13-2018, 07:45 PM
#146
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I know Emilio pretty well, have ridden with him, and am convinced he could drive the box that the shocks came in to a lower laptime than me in a C8.
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08-13-2018, 07:49 PM
#147
lol at this thread.
The truth is that Emilio/Andrew and some other guys on the forum could drive a shitty BC setup to close to XIDA times around a track (all things equal). But that shitty BC setup is going to be less consistent, less reliable, less comfortable, etc.
OP, you're going to buy a poverty setup anyway. Why did you even bother starting this thread?
The truth is that Emilio/Andrew and some other guys on the forum could drive a shitty BC setup to close to XIDA times around a track (all things equal). But that shitty BC setup is going to be less consistent, less reliable, less comfortable, etc.
OP, you're going to buy a poverty setup anyway. Why did you even bother starting this thread?
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08-13-2018, 11:27 PM
#149
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The advanced autosports sleeves are what you want.
I only ran hats in the rears because folks said that was fine. I haven't had any crazy bumpstop marring experiences in the front, but this is for street use and I'm not low at all.
MSM billies are good.
I don't understand the rationale that goes into spending a grand on a budget DIY billy setup. That just feels like no mans land to me.
I think I basically turned the DIY billy thread into this exact conversation a year or so ago haha.
I only ran hats in the rears because folks said that was fine. I haven't had any crazy bumpstop marring experiences in the front, but this is for street use and I'm not low at all.
MSM billies are good.
I don't understand the rationale that goes into spending a grand on a budget DIY billy setup. That just feels like no mans land to me.
I think I basically turned the DIY billy thread into this exact conversation a year or so ago haha.
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08-13-2018, 11:30 PM
#150
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The advanced autosports sleeves are what you want.
I only ran hats in the rears because folks said that was fine. I haven't had any crazy bumpstop marring experiences in the front, but this is for street use and I'm not low at all.
MSM billies are good.
I don't understand the rationale that goes into spending a grand on a budget DIY billy setup. That just feels like no mans land to me.
I think I basically turned the DIY billy thread into this exact conversation a year or so ago haha.
I only ran hats in the rears because folks said that was fine. I haven't had any crazy bumpstop marring experiences in the front, but this is for street use and I'm not low at all.
MSM billies are good.
I don't understand the rationale that goes into spending a grand on a budget DIY billy setup. That just feels like no mans land to me.
I think I basically turned the DIY billy thread into this exact conversation a year or so ago haha.
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08-14-2018, 12:16 AM
#152
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To be fair, OP is likely going to do a Bilstein setup, which is the only poverty setup that works. He specifically said he wasn't going to pay for the options that dudebro is talking about doing a comparo with, the whole thing got sidetracked when Jerrick decided to show up.
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08-14-2018, 01:26 PM
#155
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https://www.mazdamotorsports.com/2018/08/14/14166/
SM is going to penskes, so used market to be flooded with billies shortly?
SM is going to penskes, so used market to be flooded with billies shortly?
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08-14-2018, 02:08 PM
#158
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I personally don't see Meister as something terrible. I haven't tried them, but I see knocking them down without first hand experience as biased. I have worked in product sourcing and can tell you that something designed in-house and built to spec in the same factory as some cheap parts does not mean that everything coming out of there sucks. I work with machine shops that make everything from simple hardware mounting plates, to medical grade titanium implants for humans, bodies for lasers used in microprocessor production, gas turbine parts (these are SUPER high tolerance and QA on them is insane), to US military components that I can't talk about. Some parts coming out of the shop are $20/pieces, others are into thousands for just a complex metal part cut out of a special alloy block. Some are done on semi-manual lathes, others on $5,000,000 fully automated systems loaded with 100 tools, crane, belt line and multiple mill/lathe machines.
On the Penske subject, I think this paragraph is relevant:
So it's everything except for the springs. I assume that SM springs rates will be target for Penske shock valving, but that may not the be the case. Cost wise, it looks like they will be a bit more expensive than Bilsteins, but maybe will ride better. The part that concerns me is the "temper-proof" part - what does that mean and how will that affect those not racing in SM, but still wanting to use the shocks? What about adding remote reservoirs?
Rebuild price is similar to Bilstein, maybe you can also customize and request special rates. I do wonder how the shocks will be configured ( i assume threaded body with perch going up and down), so no messing around with sleeves anymore.
On the Penske subject, I think this paragraph is relevant:
The new shock price will be set at $198.74 apiece, with the complete upper mount/bump stop kit retailing at $249.90. Parts will be available exclusively through Mazda Motorsports with a total cost for conversion; including four shocks, top mount, bump stops and lower spherical mounts for less than $1,050. Unlike the current Spec Miata shock, the Penske will be tamper-proof, and rebuildable through Penske at $100/shock. It is recommended that shocks be inspected by Penske after 100 hours of track use to determine whether a rebuild would be valuable. 100 hours of racing before rebuild inspection doesn't inspire a lot of confidence in the quality though.
Rebuild price is similar to Bilstein, maybe you can also customize and request special rates. I do wonder how the shocks will be configured ( i assume threaded body with perch going up and down), so no messing around with sleeves anymore.
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08-14-2018, 02:32 PM
#160
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That very well may be, wouldn't be the first time.
The way I see it people knock on them because they are made by BC and use some similar components, so there is an automatic assumption that they perform similarly to BC's own (and many other generic names produced by them). However, I've read what Jerrick posted about them on various sites and looked at them sponsoring racing including Miata's specifically. They do appear to have in house shock engineers instead of just graphic designers sending logo files to put on generic coil-overs. I'm on a fence until I either try them myself or hear from someone with experience running other setups and lots of track time behind the belt, someone who can be considered an authoritative person on Miatas. While m.net members are more of an average crowd mostly interested in street performance, the feedback so far has been largely positive. This is why I'm challenging Jerrick to find such person and see if he/she would do a fully independent review/test.
The way I see it people knock on them because they are made by BC and use some similar components, so there is an automatic assumption that they perform similarly to BC's own (and many other generic names produced by them). However, I've read what Jerrick posted about them on various sites and looked at them sponsoring racing including Miata's specifically. They do appear to have in house shock engineers instead of just graphic designers sending logo files to put on generic coil-overs. I'm on a fence until I either try them myself or hear from someone with experience running other setups and lots of track time behind the belt, someone who can be considered an authoritative person on Miatas. While m.net members are more of an average crowd mostly interested in street performance, the feedback so far has been largely positive. This is why I'm challenging Jerrick to find such person and see if he/she would do a fully independent review/test.
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