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Old 06-20-2011, 04:32 PM   #1
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Default Track/ButtSechs Suspension Help

there are many threads like this... but this one is mine.

Situation:
Clean slate 10ae that will be an FI track car eventually. Right now doing canyon driving revamping all components to prepare for engine mods down the line. Car is not my DD and I sorta consider it an 80%r. In that I mean if I can get 80% of the performance of the big boys toys with 50% of the cost or less... that's the option I'll chose. Function > form in every way. Would like to lower the car enough to help performance but no more.

102k miles on the stock struts/springs. I'd like to buy on a budget. Every dollar that I can save here I can put into the bank for the safety gear revamp and engine work. A perfect world would put me at under a grand for everything, but I am a realist.

My thoughts after searching/reading:
-Getting a set of vmaxx coils and sending my oe billstiens out to be re-valved and cut down. get a set of ebay coil sleeves and some 550ish lb springs. Sell the vmaxx coils when i get the bills back from some suspension shop that does amazing rebuilds at a snails pace.
-getting koni sports with ebay sleeves and 500ish lb springs.

I'd like to stay near the budget and I want to be able to have the ability to corner balance. If you were me and you had a good condition stock car that needed the aftermarket touch done to everything within the next 24 months. What would you do. Keep in mind I could potentially leave the car on jack stands while the struts get sent out but I'd rather take the 200 dollar hit and stay driving/AutoXing.

Oh btw. First post.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:36 PM   #2
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If you ever type "touge" again I will ban you.

AST/XIDA is the only way to go. If you can't afford that I'd recommend Bilstein HD's and 400/325 rates, no more because there is too much high-speed rebound damping and it makes me puke.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:43 PM   #3
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WTF is "touge"?
Its what the zomgdrift crowd calls twisty mountain roads in an effort to seem more in-tune with japanese culture. Kind of like how kids around here refer to the car as a Eunos roadster even though they've probably never set foot in a country where it is actually called that.

TL;DR -> Kid wants to sound cool, needs to realize that this isn't club roadster.

Edit: You ninja editing son of a bitch
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:43 PM   #4
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If you ever type "touge" again I will ban you.

AST/XIDA is the only way to go. If you can't afford that I'd recommend Bilstein HD's and 400/325 rates, no more because there is too much high-speed rebound damping and it makes me puke.
Fixed for a more miata friendly thread title.

When you say too much high-speed do you mean in the stock valving configuration or just in general (even after a professional revalve)?

The truth is I could afford the AST/Xida stuff but it would delay other portions of the car so significantly it would put off actually getting on the track with this car. In the end that's the reason I bought this car... my last track car just turned into an upgrading obsession and I couldn't afford to modify/improve and track the car.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:45 PM   #5
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I have a set if springs I just pulled off my car. 550lb 6" Eibach and 350lb 7" qa1. Ran them on my stock and then revolved bils before going 700/450. Pm me if you're interested.

For a street/track car they are quite good. While the ride was a fair bit harsher withthe stock valving it was by no means unbearable. I dd'd te car for a year on them before getting Bernie to revalve the shocks.

Edit: oh and I ran them on eBay sleeves too and was able to get a 12" 12.25" f/r ride height with isc top hats. You can buy proper sleeves though from isc racing. I would do that over the eBay sleeves.
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Old 06-20-2011, 04:59 PM   #6
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I have a set if springs I just pulled off my car. 550lb 6" Eibach and 350lb 7" qa1. Ran them on my stock and then revolved bils before going 700/450. Pm me if you're interested.

For a street/track car they are quite good. While the ride was a fair bit harsher withthe stock valving it was by no means unbearable. I dd'd te car for a year on them before getting Bernie to revalve the shocks.

Edit: oh and I ran them on eBay sleeves too and was able to get a 12" 12.25" f/r ride height with isc top hats. You can buy proper sleeves though from isc racing. I would do that over the eBay sleeves.
thanks for the insight. I'm definitely interested in the springs. I need to do a bit more reading about setting up sleeve kits on any of the given dampeners. I've gone through the threads and there seems to be a lot of NA discussion but not all that much NB specific discussion. For example using NA struts on an NB and how that will work out (IE koni's) with the top hats (I know the threaded part of the shaft is shorter on NA struts).

On that subject you're suggesting ISC top hats on an NB in lieu of the NB top hats? Judging from this I assume that the ISC's provide even more stroke than the NB's. Can you elaborate?

I'm in sorta a weird spot because if I do want to have my stock struts rebuilt I'll have to send them off. So really I'll need an interim setup that can hopefully perform a bit better than the partially blown stockers.
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Old 06-20-2011, 05:06 PM   #7
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Struts?

$1800 is not a lot of money for the last shocks you'll buy for the car. If you gave me the option of $2000 in shocks, brakes, or engine, I'd take the shocks.
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Old 06-20-2011, 05:12 PM   #8
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Struts?

$1800 is not a lot of money for the last shocks you'll buy for the car. If you gave me the option of $2000 in shocks, brakes, or engine, I'd take the shocks.
Any other grammatical corrections you'd like to clear up?

2k+ is not a lot of money on most cars... but I'm not ready to jump down the slippery slope of 2k worth of suspension on a 5000 car quite yet. Or at least I don't think I am. I've also had a bit of experience running (rebuilding would be a better term I guess) ast setups on other cars and I'm just not ready to go down that road quite yet.

I will however take your suggestion to heart. I'm just sitting and looking at a lot of tired parts on my car that need attention. That 2300 dollar xida coil over setup isn't going to do me all that much good when I am in dire need of wheels/tires, brakes, full safety revamp, etc etc. Unfortunatly with blown stock stuff my timeline is a little screwed up for funding a cash purchase roughly 1/2 the value of the car I just bought 2 months ago.
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Old 06-20-2011, 05:15 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by EErockMiata View Post
Any other grammatical corrections you'd like to clear up?

2k+ is not a lot of money on most cars... but I'm not ready to jump down the slippery slope of 2k worth of suspension on a 5000 car quite yet. Or at least I don't think I am. I've also had a bit of experience running (rebuilding would be a better term I guess) ast setups on other cars and I'm just not ready to go down that road quite yet.

I will however take your suggestion to heart. I'm just sitting and looking at a lot of tired parts on my car that need attention. That 2300 dollar xida coil over setup isn't going to do me all that much good when I am in dire need of wheels/tires, brakes, full safety revamp, etc etc. Unfortunatly with blown stock stuff my timeline is a little screwed up for funding a cash purchase roughly 1/2 the value of the car I just bought 2 months ago.
so then do like I'm doing and never drive the car until everything is done, don't cut corners.
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Old 06-20-2011, 05:19 PM   #10
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so then do like I'm doing and never drive the car until everything is done, don't cut corners.
Hmmmm, Life moves a bit too fast for me to do that. I've been there and this car was the solution to that problem.

Thanks for the suggestions guys. Off to do some more reading.
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Old 06-20-2011, 05:25 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by EErockMiata View Post
Any other grammatical corrections you'd like to clear up?

2k+ is not a lot of money on most cars... but I'm not ready to jump down the slippery slope of 2k worth of suspension on a 5000 car quite yet. Or at least I don't think I am. I've also had a bit of experience running (rebuilding would be a better term I guess) ast setups on other cars and I'm just not ready to go down that road quite yet.

I will however take your suggestion to heart. I'm just sitting and looking at a lot of tired parts on my car that need attention. That 2300 dollar xida coil over setup isn't going to do me all that much good when I am in dire need of wheels/tires, brakes, full safety revamp, etc etc. Unfortunatly with blown stock stuff my timeline is a little screwed up for funding a cash purchase roughly 1/2 the value of the car I just bought 2 months ago.
Are you going to be a cool new member, or one of those ****** who cries all the time and tells everyone how much they don't understand? I'd track a car on all-seasons again if I had to and if you gave me a choice of all seasons on Xidas that I could keep vs. ****-shocks and r-comps, I'll take the **** rubber and brakes with Xidas.

How much are you willing to spend on the "$5000 car"?
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Old 06-20-2011, 05:40 PM   #12
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Are you going to be a cool new member, or one of those ****** who cries all the time and tells everyone how much they don't understand? I'd track a car on all-seasons again if I had to and if you gave me a choice of all seasons on Xidas that I could keep vs. ****-shocks and r-comps, I'll take the **** rubber and brakes with Xidas.

How much are you willing to spend on the "$5000 car"?
Fortunately for me I stopped trying to be cool when I blasted through my 20's, so I guess I'll be whatever type of member I end up being.

I have no idea how much I'm willing to spend. What I'm getting at with this question is the most important part of this car for me is getting out on the track and having fun. Spending an extra 100% for a part that nets me 15-20% more speed/fun isn't what I'm trying to go for. I want to get some experience in the miata with a well balanced setup that isn't just riding on bump stops. I want some room to grow and I'm not scared of selling off stuff to move to a different setup and taking calculated losses so that I can obtain the primary goal of keeping the car off jack stands. That being said, if you truly feel that anything other than a xida level setup is a total waste of time... then that's something I need to seriously consider.

I'm not looking for a carebear answer or attitude, that's why I came here. While the crass nature of these boards can turn people off, the sheer no bs knowledge is why I'm here. Despite the fact that I have to read through the faced of angry typing, I truly appreciate the help.
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Old 06-20-2011, 05:51 PM   #13
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Well my first peice of advice is to erase that $5000 number. "We" crushed a lot of Vipers this weekend, a lot of them. I played that money game for a while and after I started tracking the car, especially in its current form, I realized the car was not an investment but more of a box to put expensive racecar parts in.

I can't tell you how much faster the good shocks made me, I'm not that great of a driver, but I immediately picked-up time on a couple tracks and the car is much easier to drive. I've had 5-sets of shocks on two cars, only two were worth a **** being the two I recommended.
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Old 06-20-2011, 05:58 PM   #14
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I'm not ready to spend XXXX on a car I bought for XXXX.

snore.
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:03 PM   #15
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Well my first peice of advice is to erase that $5000 number. "We" crushed a lot of Vipers this weekend, a lot of them. I played that money game for a while and after I started tracking the car, especially in its current form, I realized the car was not an investment but more of a box to put expensive racecar parts in.

I can't tell you how much faster the good shocks made me, I'm not that great of a driver, but I immediately picked-up time on a couple tracks and the car is much easier to drive. I've had 5-sets of shocks on two cars, only two were worth a **** being the two I recommended.
noted. I think i'll take the ride 5 miles down the road and let Emilio give me the hard sell.

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I'm not ready to spend XXXX on a car I bought for XXXX.

snore.
I know man. Being married and justifying the purchases can be a real bitch. Oh well, I take it out on her by destroying the tires on her Mazdaspeed3 every chance I get. It's just simply about balance. I can only spend so much a year before the boss starts to notice. Unfortunately she's quite car savvy and knows a thing or two about my expensive hobbies. Mark my words, having a gear head wife is a curse.
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:08 PM   #16
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noted. I think i'll take the ride 5 miles down the road and let Emilio give me the hard sell.
Mention me holding a gun to your head. I have a ride along yesterday to an inquiring mind and he'll probably buy a set too.
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:18 PM   #17
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I have a set if springs I just pulled off my car. 550lb 6" Eibach and 350lb 7" qa1. Ran them on my stock and then revolved bils before going 700/450. Pm me if you're interested.

For a street/track car they are quite good. While the ride was a fair bit harsher withthe stock valving it was by no means unbearable. I dd'd te car for a year on them before getting Bernie to revalve the shocks.

Edit: oh and I ran them on eBay sleeves too and was able to get a 12" 12.25" f/r ride height with isc top hats. You can buy proper sleeves though from isc racing. I would do that over the eBay sleeves.
Im on ebay sleeves, koni sports, 525lb/335lb springs. Its only margainally harsher than stock units with 153k miles on them. I got the konis free, so Ill see how much damage I can do with $200 total invested. Hopefully I dont embarrass any high dollar suspension guys
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:21 PM   #18
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Honestly if budget is such a concer, find some cheap stock non bils to run. Send SD your shocks and buy my springs. Keep the nb top hats. I just ran isc for a tiny bit more stroke but if you're shortening the shock bodies then it dosent matter between the two. I suggest proper sleeves over the eBay ones. It will cost about $130 for a set of four real sleeves and perches.

For the price you can't really beat the above listed.
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:24 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by EErockMiata View Post
but I'm not ready to jump down the slippery slope of 2k worth of suspension on a 5000 car quite yet.
You're really looking at it the wrong way. Show me something else at this price point that can run with some of the high dollar cars people on this forum are running with.
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Old 06-20-2011, 06:36 PM   #20
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You're really looking at it the wrong way. Show me something else at this price point that can run with some of the high dollar cars people on this forum are running with.
Or he's looking at it the right way. If hes a track novice and doesnt plan to spend more than 2-3 days a year out at the track, his money is better spent on SEAT TIME than high end suspension. High dollar suspension is only worth it, if you possess the skill to actually fully utilize it/are out driving other setups. The SM guys seem to get by fine with tweaked stock stuff w/sleeves.

So until he can drive the car 10/10 (or even 8/10) and know why/where better suspension will help him shave time, it cold easily just act as a band-aid to cover up driving mistakes.
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