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Old 06-20-2011, 08:13 PM   #21
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Or he's looking at it the right way. If hes a track novice and doesnt plan to spend more than 2-3 days a year out at the track, his money is better spent on SEAT TIME than high end suspension. High dollar suspension is only worth it, if you possess the skill to actually fully utilize it/are out driving other setups. The SM guys seem to get by fine with tweaked stock stuff w/sleeves.

So until he can drive the car 10/10 (or even 8/10) and know why/where better suspension will help him shave time, it cold easily just act as a band-aid to cover up driving mistakes.
Or we're not even talking about the same thing.
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:40 PM   #22
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Or we're not even talking about the same thing.
We are though, if you want to talk about "running with the high dollar cars", its much more than how much you have dropped in mods. The truly fast guys have more money spent on track time/tires/brakes than they do mods. Using that as justification to purchase high-end stuff is just to prevent buyers remorse
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:54 PM   #23
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So until he can drive the car 10/10 (or even 8/10) and know why/where better suspension will help him shave time, it cold easily just act as a band-aid to cover up driving mistakes.
More grip is more grip, period. It's not like a tire where you get more slip angle, it helps the car keep the tire on the ground.

The money the SM guys save in hardware is surely surpassed by set-up. If you want to compare a run of the mill SM then add a few seconds to that comparison.

The most expensive suspension in the world couldn't get me around Spoolin2Bars this weekend, but it sure was easy to drive my car.
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Old 06-20-2011, 08:58 PM   #24
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We are though, if you want to talk about "running with the high dollar cars", its much more than how much you have dropped in mods. The truly fast guys have more money spent on track time/tires/brakes than they do mods. Using that as justification to purchase high-end stuff is just to prevent buyers remorse
...and the things I'm learning today I never could have learned if I didn't do things like double the power, double the tire grip, and double the suspension grip. I still see Xida/AST as the fundemental, ground floor of any car that will see the you want to make better than the factory.
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:01 PM   #25
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The SM guys seem to get by fine with tweaked stock stuff w/sleeves.
God, this is such a horrible rationalization. SM suspension is ****. The only reason ANYONE considers it to be even slightly good is because everyone is forced to run the same shitty shocks, and therefore people have figured out how to go fast in spite of the shitty shocks.

If you bolted a set of Clubsports to a Spec Miata, it's worth a minimum of 1 second at any 2-minute track in the country.

Buying suspension twice saves you money now and forces you to spend it again later. Take it from the guys here that have bought a lot of stuff twice - you want to buy the good parts first.
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:44 PM   #26
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God, this is such a horrible rationalization. SM suspension is ****. The only reason ANYONE considers it to be even slightly good is because everyone is forced to run the same shitty shocks, and therefore people have figured out how to go fast in spite of the shitty shocks.
Winner winner chicken dinner. Until you figure out how to go fast with basic stuff you aren't going to see the value in the higher end stuff

Quote:
If you bolted a set of Clubsports to a Spec Miata, it's worth a minimum of 1 second at any 2-minute track in the country.
Not arguing with you there. But 10 track days is worth 15-20 seconds to a complete novice. Much more speed/dollar ratio than suspension alone

Quote:
Buying suspension twice saves you money now and forces you to spend it again later. Take it from the guys here that have bought a lot of stuff twice - you want to buy the good parts first.
Fully agree with here you unless the OP ends up hitting the track one or two weekends a year. Then he will be slow regardless, likely wont even run a timer, and wont ever fully utilize Xidas or bettr.

A lot of people buy "track" suspension/parts/etc and only end up doing parade laps in C group, get bored, run out of money, or wrap it around a pole on a "touge" run

Thats why I brought up that point in my first post. How serious he is about the track, how many days he plans, is he already a track veteran, etc. If anything he should take it out bone stuff first, let the local hot shoe drive his car while he rides in the suicide seat and see if he pisses himself

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Old 06-20-2011, 09:45 PM   #27
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Is there a reason SD Bilstiens haven't been mentioned much? I thought they were just as good as the $2000 package you're all talking about. Good thing about those is that he can buy them piece by piece, and save money by using Ebay sleeves and used 2.5" springs. In the end, if he's lucky/careful, he could only end up spending ~$1200-1500.
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:58 PM   #28
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Is there a reason SD Bilstiens haven't been mentioned much? I thought they were just as good as the $2000 package you're all talking about. Good thing about those is that he can buy them piece by piece, and save money by using Ebay sleeves and used 2.5" springs. In the end, if he's lucky/careful, he could only end up spending ~$1200-1500.
SD seems to be very backed up right now. Theres a whole lotta hoopla on m.net
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Old 06-20-2011, 09:59 PM   #29
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I did. ^^^. Seems like a much more logical choice for someone on a budget and onl does 2 or 3 track days a year plus daily driving.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:01 PM   #30
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Well eBay sleeves are like $20, I don't want too much for my springs and he already has oem bils. He shouldn't need to spend more thank $600 total if he uses his oem bilstiens.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:18 PM   #31
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I have AWR sleeves and collars.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:19 PM   #32
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Just go crazy and buy some Moton's. So the suspension matches the price of the car. This is good stuff. Here the product link:
http://motonsuspensiononline.com/ind...f39c32a3755000
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:25 PM   #33
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Just go crazy and buy some Moton's. So the suspension matches the price of the car. This is good stuff. Here the product link:
http://motonsuspensiononline.com/ind...f39c32a3755000
Yes definitely buy Motons, AST did.
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:27 PM   #34
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Custom penske triples or bust
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:32 PM   #35
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Yes definitely buy Motons, AST did.
lol
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Old 06-20-2011, 10:40 PM   #36
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I have AWR sleeves and collars.


As do I.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:04 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by EErockMiata View Post
What I'm getting at with this question is the most important part of this car for me is getting out on the track and having fun.
If that's truly the case, then my suggestion would be to spend the money you have now on the bare essentials to get the car onto the track safely, whatever that may be. Then get out there and DRIVE IT until you get the money for the fancy suspension and other bits.

That's basically been my strategy since I bought my car in Nov. I've had a blast all year, and (because I'm such a driving ) I'm still dropping 2-3 seconds at our local tracks, even though I've only done a few basic mods. Anyway, JMHO.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:17 AM   #38
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Originally Posted by trakhoar View Post
We are though, if you want to talk about "running with the high dollar cars", its much more than how much you have dropped in mods. The truly fast guys have more money spent on track time/tires/brakes than they do mods. Using that as justification to purchase high-end stuff is just to prevent buyers remorse
What I'm saying is you shouldn't shy away from buying expensive parts simply because they're approaching/exceeding the cost of the car itself. You need to look at it as total expenditures vs. other cars. What, an STi msrp is like ~33k? Doesn't mean you need to spend anywhere near that to smear **** on it at the track. I'm not talking about the right way to develop good driving habits, that's understood and we're on the same page as far as that goes.
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Old 06-21-2011, 02:56 AM   #39
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What I'm saying is you shouldn't shy away from buying expensive parts simply because they're approaching/exceeding the cost of the car itself.
This. I tell people how much I've spent (not nearly as much as some of you guys) on my car and I get asked why I would spend more than the car is worth.

It makes me want to punch babies.

If you're serious, buy the expensive ****.
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Old 06-21-2011, 04:12 AM   #40
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Yes definitely buy Motons, AST did.
they already have Moton stickers on the door of the ast shop.
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