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Old 07-12-2013, 06:04 PM   #61
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Full kit prices.

I need to come up with snappier names, but here you go. If you don't want the parking brake capability, knock $100 off these prices.

4-wheel Little Big Brake kit with 4-piston rear calipers and parking brake
FM part 14-16170
without proportioning valve (for 2001-05 ABS cars and autocrossers with class restrictions): $995
with proportioning valve (recommended) $1045

Includes:
Wilwood Powerlite 4-piston calipers front and rear
Wilwood Polymatrix E pads
stainless braided lines front and rear
parking brake cables
note - no rotors included
available for 9", 10" or 11" front rotors
available for 10" or 11" rear rotors
rotor sizes can be mixed and matched if you want to mess with bias, no charge


4-wheel big brake kit with 4-piston rear calipers and parking brake
FM part 14-16220
without proportioning valve (for 2001-05 ABS cars and autocrossers with class restrictions): $1324
with proportioning valve (recommended) $1374

Includes:
Wilwood Dynalite 4-piston calipers and Wilwood BP-10 pads front
Wilwood Powerlite 4-piston calipers and Wilwood Polymatrix E pads rear
two-piece 11" front rotors
one-piece 11" rear rotors
stainless braided lines front and rear
parking brake cables


Big Mama Jama Brake Kit (contains 20 pistons!)
4-wheel big brake kit with 6-piston front calipers and 4 piston rear calipers and parking brake
FM part # not yet available
without proportioning valve (for 2001-05 ABS cars and autocrossers with class restrictions): $1724
with proportioning valve (recommended) $1774

Includes:
Wilwood Superlite 6-piston calipers and Wilwood BP-10 pads front
Wilwood Powerlite 4-piston calipers and Wilwood Polymatrix E pads rear
two-piece 11" front rotors
one-piece 11" rear rotors
stainless braided lines front and rear
parking brake cables
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Old 07-13-2013, 12:10 PM   #62
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Keith, will the lines already have the correct Wilwood fitting installed?

I didn't the BBK setup on my old E30 in that it went:
SS line -> adapter fitting -> caliper........just adds another failure point.

Any plans to offer a 2 piece rear rotor?
Prices for kits without pads?
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Old 07-14-2013, 12:48 AM   #63
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That is the correct way to do it, really. Wilwood calipers have a 1/8 NPT fitting on them. That's not a good thread for repeated R&R, and you can't clock it at all. So you install a 1/8 NPT to -3 AN flare adapter, and now you have a fitting designed for multiple installations and that can be clocked to get the perfect brake line routing.

It may add another failure point in theory, but in practice it's much better. I'd wager that close to 100% of all Wilwood Dyna/Power/Superlite calipers are installed this way, from street rods to circle track racers.

It goes without saying that our brake lines will follow the same pattern we've been using in our big brake kits for nearly two decades: a metric fitting on one end to mate to the factory hard lines, a -3 AN fitting on the other to mate to an adapter screwed into the caliper.

If we can come up with a two-piece rotor of the appropriate dimensions for a reasonable price, we'll offer one. For pad deletion, we can remove Powerlite pads from the kits for $50 per axle set. I don't have prices for Dynalite and Superlite kits without pads, as those are bundled by Wilwood and ridiculously discounted over the cost of the individual components.
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Old 07-14-2013, 02:38 AM   #64
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Keith, I am considering a brake upgrade and your kit looks very enticing. I'd like to pick your brain for a moment as I've got a couple of questions that you might be able to answer for me:

1. Just how "wimpy" is the parking brake on the rear Wilwood calipers? I ask because to pass annual safety inspection in my location, the method for testing the parking brake is to release the clutch while the car is in gear and the brake must be able hold the car (and subsequently stall the engine). Is this reasonably within its capability?

2. Would there be any improvement in the initial "bite" or "response" of the brakes over stock due to mechanical clamping power or leverage, or are these kits primarily just to deal with weight and heat (and quicker/simpler pad change) concerns?

I currently have the standard brakes with some Porterfield R4-S pads (which have been great for street use) on my 1997 and have been considering the "4-wheel Little Big Brake kit with 4-piston rear calipers and parking brake" with either 10" rotors or possibly swapping up to the ~11" sport rotors. I am looking for a little bit of improvement on braking leverage (more responsive, if that makes senses?) and a little bit of improvement on heat management. For my current uses/goals, I don't need massive improvements, but would like to feel a noticeable change. Would swapping to a master cylinder and booster from a later model car be more effective? How about in combination with one of these kits?
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Old 07-14-2013, 01:14 PM   #65
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I doubt the Wilwood kit would pass that test. Heck, my 2010 Dodge Ram would fail it in stock form. But I'll try it as soon as we have one functioning again - we had to remove the prototype cables temporarily and I'm waiting for production ones to arrive.

The rear kit is available for two different rotor sizes. If you don't change the rotor diameter, the leverage doesn't change. The overall pressure won't change either, due to the fact that we matched the piston sizes. However, it is a larger pad than stock so you should get some more bias. Pad choice will make a big difference there as well.

I'm not sure "more leverage" is what you're really asking about. It might be best if you give me a call on Monday so we can clarify your goals and your reasons for them. Then I'll be able to give better suggestions. I can tell you that the four wheel 10" LBBK with E compounds all around (the standard setup) has very good initial bite and balance. It's what I'm currently running on my street car.
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Old 07-16-2013, 07:57 PM   #66
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Default Compare to the normal four wheel BBK

Keith,

Can you quickly compare/contrast the four caliper rears against the standard FM BBK? I was set to buy the standard BBK, but may want to move this direction instead.
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Old 07-16-2013, 08:26 PM   #67
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Our standard four-wheel BBK uses the existing stock caliper on a new bracket, allowing it to fit over a stock Sport rotor. We also include all the same stuff - new pads, lines and rotors. So it's really a straight comparison between the calipers.

The Powerlites are lighter (over 3 lbs each corner, depends on the year of your car), have easier to change pads that are usually less expensive and have a larger pad (again, depending on the year of your car). The four piston setup should give more even clamping force on the pad.

The stock calipers have a better handbrake and are less expensive.
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Old 07-17-2013, 07:40 AM   #68
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Now I'm slightly confused. Is the powerlite ebrake just there for the sake of having a handbrake (however functional) to be legal in whatever class or will it at least be able to lock the wheels and hold the car on a moderate incline? If the latter, I need this. I still park on the streets and use the ebrake from time to time to stop rolling backwards at some traffic lights. I'm also on my 3rd set of rear calipers and getting rid of this sliding pin ------ry would be great.
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:21 PM   #69
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As much as I'd love to snap my fingers and make this Powerlite handbrake as powerful as stock, I can't. So I'm being realistic about the abilities.

It will hold the car on a moderate incline. I haven't been able to put a number to the actual grade yet, though.

Could you use it for hill starts? Yes. If you park on the streets, leave the car in gear as well as the brake.

I didn't know there were any hills in the Netherlands
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Old 07-17-2013, 12:47 PM   #70
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Good enough for me then. Not many hills, but an abundance of bridges that take ages to open/close and are on inclines.
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Old 07-17-2013, 08:57 PM   #71
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Okay, I'm a doofus. Too many brake kits, too little memory.

This kit will increase rear bias, as the piston area is about 28% larger than the 1990-02 calipers and 5% larger than the Sport calipers. I knew that but I'd forgotten with all the other brake stuff that we're working on right now. So even for autoxers that aren't allowed to use different proportioning valves, you will get better balance.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:20 PM   #72
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Does Sport Master cylinder vs regular master cylinder have any effect on what rotor/piston sizes you would use?

I realize the Sport is just larger diameter so it moves more fluid per unit of movement, but was wondering if say this is being sized for a regular MC, the Sport may end up with an overly firm pedal, and if reverse, maybe you'd end up with a slightly mushy pedal?

Or are they close enough for it to be a wash?
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:23 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
Does Sport Master cylinder vs regular master cylinder have any effect on what rotor/piston sizes you would use?

I realize the Sport is just larger diameter so it moves more fluid per unit of movement, but was wondering if say this is being sized for a regular MC, the Sport may end up with an overly firm pedal, and if reverse, maybe you'd end up with a slightly mushy pedal?

Or are they close enough for it to be a wash?
I've used Sport MCs on everything from stock 1.6 brakes F/R to 11.75 Wilwoods and Sport rears, and it's an improvement in every situation. I don't expect the rear Wilwoods to change that.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:28 PM   #74
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I've used Sport MCs on everything from stock 1.6 brakes F/R to 11.75 Wilwoods and Sport rears, and it's an improvement in every situation. I don't expect the rear Wilwoods to change that.
I figured it was a wash, but never hurts to clarify.

I really like bbundy's comment from earlier in the thread on using the radial mount Dynapro's up front.
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Old 07-18-2013, 02:56 PM   #75
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Agreed, the Sport MC is nice to have regardless. Both of the cars I've been testing on have had them, actually. It should be mentioned that even the non-sport cars in 2001-02 had the larger 15/16" master.

The pedal feel change would be equivalent to installing Sport calipers on a 1990-00 master. A small change, but nothing massive.
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Old 07-18-2013, 07:57 PM   #76
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Does Wilwood have anything about the Powerlite with integrated p/b on their web site? I can't find it.
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Old 07-19-2013, 12:43 PM   #77
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They do not. It's not a normal catalog product and not publicly available. However, if you delete the parking brake, it's a Powerlite with 1" pistons designed for 0.5" rotors. That one is in the catalog.
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Old 07-30-2013, 11:12 AM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
We're 4-6 weeks out. Wilwood Powerlite 4-pot caliper on a CNC'd bracket, custom rear rotor hat, and custom rear 10" rotor. Bias is a bit more rear than a 1.8L caliper on a 10.9" rotor. I have one kit in testing that's using production-spec brackets and an early prototype rotor hat. The production hats will be 7075-T6 and 40% lighter.

We'll play with a parking brake option at some point. Design goal #1 with this kit was to remove as much weight as possible from the rear brakes, so the parking brake got chucked immediately.

Pricing TBA, figure on it being well under $1k. Buy it with an 11.75" front kit and we'll give you a better deal. We're taking what we learned from this project and designing our own front rotor hats, so expect our front 11.75" kits to drop in price and weight as well.
Any updates on this?
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Old 07-30-2013, 03:43 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by z31maniac View Post
Any updates on this?
It's taken longer than expected to get pre-production V2 rear hats. With any luck we'll have them on the car for some test miles next weekend.
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Old 07-31-2013, 12:02 PM   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Savington View Post
It's taken longer than expected to get pre-production V2 rear hats. With any luck we'll have them on the car for some test miles next weekend.
No problem.

On the previous pages you mention choosing a 10" disc for the rear to get close to the correct bias with a prop valve being almost open.

Is that for the 11.75" front kit, or the 11" front kit? I have a prop valve installed already, so it's not a big deal, just curious.

Aside from the 11.75" likely being a bit overkill for an HPDE/TT car that will never go forced induction, I don't think it would fit under the current 15x8 Konig Flatouts that sit on the car.
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