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Old 11-06-2010, 01:50 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
I've read the largest issue with Ohlins is the limited rear travel. That's where the Xidas have the edge.
It does become noticeable in what I would call "surprise moments" on a daily drive at speeds faster than the recommended limit through poorly designed intersections or construction zones.
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Old 11-06-2010, 03:06 PM   #42
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It does become noticeable in what I would call "surprise moments" on a daily drive at speeds faster than the recommended limit through poorly designed intersections or construction zones.
Or over like, bumps.
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Old 11-06-2010, 03:51 PM   #43
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Corrected math below


700 #/in front springs ~= 350 #/in at the wheel.
2450 lbs car ~= 612# at one wheel.

612/350 = only 1.75" of wheel travel to go from rest, to full unseating of the spring

IOW an abrupt 1.75" dip in the road is enough for the tire to catch air.

Last edited by JasonC SBB; 11-07-2010 at 12:41 PM.
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Old 11-06-2010, 04:20 PM   #44
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I haven't experienced any type of problems over such meager obstacles actually.

Heading northbound on Moulton going through the El Toro intersection is the only time I have felt the rear length to be an issue. I would love to see a coilover at my ride height do better as far as the daily drive is concerned.
daily drive? 3 words - fat cat motorsports
even though i'm sure the xida's would work better, why would you buy a set of "track" coilovers for street duty? i think it's already been established that for $$$ and riding low while cruising the boulevard, racelands are the ticket.
like others have said, i'm done trying to esplain dese tings. you buy ohlins or tein or whatever and you'll probably be fine. for those of us that wan't to shave the last tenth will know what's what.
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Old 11-06-2010, 06:24 PM   #45
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Keith Tanner was the one who commented about the Ohlins lack of rear travel. He tested them on real roads while designing the shocks for the Targa Miata. I'm sure the Ohlins are great for tracking but they are major coinage. The Xidas are a better value for sure.
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Old 11-06-2010, 07:56 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC

Emilio, what spring rate do you like to use on the secondary springs?
2x150
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Old 11-06-2010, 08:21 PM   #47
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Stay on topic or I'll hack your computer and give your financial information to Nigerian scammers.
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:48 PM   #48
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Well speak of the devil!!!

I was just watching World Challenge and saw them not only give us a suspension shot, but it was an AST car, and it was using the helper spring:

[email protected] awesome video.
This makes me rethink my decision to not get the helpers. However, wit the wheels off the ground I only have 1/4" or so of gap from the spring to the perch (none in the rear). Would I still benefit from using the helper? With that little of a gap at full droop, is it likely the sway-bar is taking up the gap, making the helper unnecessary?

BTW, see those spots on my TV? That 50" ****** is 3-years old and a total waste of $1500!!!

Last edited by hustler; 11-06-2010 at 10:08 PM.
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Old 11-06-2010, 09:52 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
2x150
Do you heppen to have this info handy for the helpers:
- free length
- fully compressed length
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Old 11-06-2010, 10:14 PM   #50
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Do you heppen to have this info handy for the helpers:
- free length
- fully compressed length
At the track now. Very similar dimensions to Eibach's 2x150.


Hustler,

Beating a dead horse. They work better with the dual spring set up regardless of what you use your Miata for, what intersection you cath air on, how your car is set up. Its effectively a progressive rate spring and that's key with high primary rates.
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Old 11-06-2010, 11:25 PM   #51
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Ahh, 2x150 means 2" x 150 lb/in?
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Old 11-07-2010, 01:03 AM   #52
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Ahh, 2x150 means 2" x 150 lb/in?
Yup. Total stack with bearing and coupler is around 58mm IIRC.
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Old 11-07-2010, 01:53 AM   #53
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Do you use the helper springs with the sifter rates as well?
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Old 11-07-2010, 02:22 AM   #54
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Originally Posted by wannafbody View Post
Do you use the helper springs with the sifter rates as well?
I stop at 450/300 rates on the softer end and yes, those get dual springs as well. The ride with those rates is amazing. Most customers use Xida's on dedicated track day, wheel to wheel or autocrossers. A few on the occasional weekend toy that also has to keep the wife/girlfriend happy with a better than stock ride.
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:44 AM   #55
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So looking at your site - both the clubs and S are single adjustable. Clubs can be upgraded to double or triple adj - not so with the S? Basically, from a cost and performance standpoint, choosing dual springs with mounts on the club - what does the S offer over the club for roughly $650?
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Old 11-07-2010, 10:03 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by GeneSplicer View Post
So looking at your site - both the clubs and S are single adjustable. Clubs can be upgraded to double or triple adj - not so with the S? Basically, from a cost and performance standpoint, choosing dual springs with mounts on the club - what does the S offer over the club for roughly $650?
Top mount with bearings vs rubber mounts for the Club Sports.
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Old 11-07-2010, 10:55 AM   #57
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Originally Posted by GeneSplicer View Post
So looking at your site - both the clubs and S are single adjustable. Clubs can be upgraded to double or triple adj - not so with the S? Basically, from a cost and performance standpoint, choosing dual springs with mounts on the club - what does the S offer over the club for roughly $650?
All four models Club Sport, S, double and triple are the exact same damper. As wannafbody mentioned, it's just upper mounts added for the S. Currently, the AST sourced upper mounts are beautiful but very expensive. 949 Racing's own spherical bearing uppers are in development and we should have those by the end of Q1/11 and be quite affordable.
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Old 11-07-2010, 12:20 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeneSplicer View Post
So looking at your site - both the clubs and S are single adjustable. Clubs can be upgraded to double or triple adj - not so with the S? Basically, from a cost and performance standpoint, choosing dual springs with mounts on the club - what does the S offer over the club for roughly $650?
sounds like you just turned clubs into s. thats the whole idea. if you can't afford it all at once you can upgrade later. i love the idea, and is probably the only way i can get into a set.

Last edited by spoolin2bars; 11-07-2010 at 01:07 PM.
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Old 11-07-2010, 12:40 PM   #59
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Sorry I will correct my erroneous math below

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB

700 #/in front springs ~= 350 #/in at the wheel.
2450 lbs car ~= 612# at one wheel.

612/350 = only 1.75" of wheel travel to go from rest, to full unseating of the spring

IOW an abrupt 1.75" dip in the road is enough for the tire to catch air.
And then...

A 2" x 150 lb/in tender spring would potentially increase total droop travel by 1.6" before the springs unload. After the wheel droops about 1.4" the tender spring starts to extend from its fully compressed position, and "takes over" with about 60 lb/in at the wheel and provides another ~2" of available droop. Good for softening a landing after a wheel that would otherwise catch air, and it also maintains *some* traction.
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Old 11-07-2010, 03:13 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Sorry I will correct my erroneous math below



And then...

A 2" x 150 lb/in tender spring would potentially increase total droop travel by 1.6" before the springs unload. After the wheel droops about 1.4" the tender spring starts to extend from its fully compressed position, and "takes over" with about 60 lb/in at the wheel and provides another ~2" of available droop. Good for softening a landing after a wheel that would otherwise catch air, and it also maintains *some* traction.
Yup. Since the helper is coil bound mid stroke, you end up with a somewhat asypmtotic, progressive spring rate. So the wheel rate is much lower near full droop.
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