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Old 11-04-2010, 09:03 PM   #21
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Dual springs are essential ingredient in getting them to work the way they do. That they keep the springs from rattling is a bonus. Will go into more detail when we officially launch them.
Really? Not being a smart ***, what do they do? I thought they were put on there for miata.net wine and cheesers and you could take them off for race aplications. Do your helper not collapse fully just sitting still? So are they for running a high rate but keeps it civil on the street? Explain please I'm super interested in all this stuff.
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Old 11-05-2010, 05:02 AM   #22
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Really? Not being a smart ***, what do they do? I thought they were put on there for miata.net wine and cheesers and you could take them off for race aplications. Do your helper not collapse fully just sitting still? So are they for running a high rate but keeps it civil on the street? Explain please I'm super interested in all this stuff.
I could and will prattle on for half an hour describing what the secondary springs do but this is the cliff notes version:

A 2000 lb car with the motion ratio of just under 1.5:1 won't compress a 700# spring far enough to allow meaningful droop travel on a longer than average race damper stroke. Beyond that, without the secondaries, there is no spring stroke left to push the tire down to remain in contact with the road.

Hit a rounded kerb at 80mph, trail brake into a hairpin, threshold brake over bad braking ripples with and without helpers. Worth every penny of the $200 upcharge for custom made springs, needle roller thrust bearings and HDPE couplers.
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:07 AM   #23
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
I could and will prattle on for half an hour describing what the secondary springs do but this is the cliff notes version:

A 2000 lb car with the motion ratio of just under 1.5:1 won't compress a 700# spring far enough to allow meaningful droop travel on a longer than average race damper stroke. Beyond that, without the secondaries, there is no spring stroke left to push the tire down to remain in contact with the road.

Hit a rounded kerb at 80mph, trail brake into a hairpin, threshold brake over bad braking ripples with and without helpers. Worth every penny of the $200 upcharge for custom made springs, needle roller thrust bearings and HDPE couplers.
Why not run a longer softer spring?
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:27 AM   #24
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Why run track valving while we are at it? Why not just run Racelands every 4 months?
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:34 AM   #25
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Why not run a longer softer spring?
Because too much body roll is a bad thing. Good valving lets you run stiff springs comfortably.
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Old 11-05-2010, 12:54 PM   #26
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Can the dual spring mod be added after say i purchased a set without them?
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Old 11-05-2010, 01:03 PM   #27
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Can the dual spring mod be added after say i purchased a set without them?
Yes. These $1800 shocks can be turned into the $blang blang$$$ Xidas, one step at a time.
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:52 PM   #28
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Thanks Emilio that makes perfect sense.

Last edited by hustler; 11-06-2010 at 08:19 PM. Reason: clean-up
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Old 11-05-2010, 03:07 PM   #29
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Yes. These $1800 shocks can be turned into the $blang blang$$$ Xidas, one step at a time.
Good to hear, Ill be placing an order.
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Old 11-05-2010, 04:18 PM   #30
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Why not run a longer softer spring?
Weight and spring rate.

To get the correct spring rate and still have enough spring stroke, would require a spring about 11" long. Springs aren't light, particularly less expensive springs like QA-1's and AFCO's. Hyperco and Swift generally have the lightest and most consistent rate springs on the market. We use Hyperco's because they cost about the same as Swifts and many of the sizes utilize their proprietary OBD (Optimum Body Diameter) design technology which further reduces weight and helps control distortion under compression.

Another factor is the Xida's are intended from the beginning to be able to be raced at extremely low ride heights while still utilizing stroke eating coaxial perches and the extra 2.3" of dual spring hardware. Xida's are the only long stroke coilovers on the market that allow max bump travel with those two segments of hardware in there.
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Old 11-05-2010, 08:05 PM   #31
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Put another way, tender springs help when you have this combo

1) stiff srpings
2) long stroke dampers
3) you hit a bump and catch air
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Old 11-05-2010, 08:36 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Put another way, tender springs help when you have this combo

1) stiff srpings
2) long stroke dampers
3) you hit a bump and catch air
Yup. Even without 100% unweighting, they are active. Do the math on a 700# spring and how much preload is required up front for a typical 51/49% track Miata at around 2450lbs total weight. That ain't a lot of droop travel. So even rough pavement will unseat a single spring system without completely unweighting. That's one of the reasons the Mazdaspeed Spec Miata kit is such a PITA

Last edited by emilio700; 11-05-2010 at 09:15 PM.
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:01 PM   #33
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Yes we are assuming at the most they got street driven to check for squeeks. You have no proof that they ever got the development time that the Xida got on or off the track. Why take a 2600 gamble with them when you can buy Emilio's Xida's and talk to the developer at midnight on a Wednesday? Yes Emilio answers emails really late some nights. I would rate the Xida's up there with Moton and Penske.
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Old 11-06-2010, 01:14 AM   #34
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If anyone here will be at Streets of Willow this weekend, we'll have a set of Xida Club Sports on William's black NB.
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Old 11-06-2010, 02:36 AM   #35
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And you have no proof they didn't. Stop pretending like you do.
we also have no proof that Raceland hasn't done extensive track tests.
it only matters what you have proof of.
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Old 11-06-2010, 02:38 AM   #36
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I'm done feeding.
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Old 11-06-2010, 10:36 AM   #37
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
Yup. Even without 100% unweighting, they are active. Do the math on a 700# spring and how much preload is required up front for a typical 51/49% track Miata at around 2450lbs total weight. That ain't a lot of droop travel. So even rough pavement will unseat a single spring system without completely unweighting. That's one of the reasons the Mazdaspeed Spec Miata kit is such a PITA
Damn you bastards making me spend more money and no more work.

Doesn't the sway-bar keep the opposing spring tight against the perches?
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Old 11-06-2010, 10:47 AM   #38
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And you have no proof they didn't. Stop pretending like you do.
We don't have to pretend that Ohlins got the right valving, their spring rates aren't half what they should be, the rear bodies aren't too long, pretend there's someone to revalve/service them...are they're $1200 more than Xida CS, and what happens if something were to go wrong?

949 and AST-USA are both American small businesses so you can call them and they are helpful? A few days ago my cat was upset with me, so I called 949 after talking to AST and they recommended I use the kitty laser, do you get that kind of service from Ohlins/Japanese? No, they will tell you that "Kitty disrespect famiry." This is contrary to my recent failure to track-down a replacement water temp gauge sender from a retarded Japanese company which became a 2-week process with no results and disrespected famiry.

On a slightly more serious note, if you hit a pot-hole and things go south, replacement parts are one phone call away. I've been on the other side of that fence with old-*** H&R coilovers where one shock puked all the oil out. H&R's solution, after weeks of chasing them, was to buy a new set.
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Old 11-06-2010, 12:32 PM   #39
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Stop feeding him, can you put him on a global ignore list where he only talks to himself.
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Old 11-06-2010, 01:21 PM   #40
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I've read the largest issue with Ohlins is the limited rear travel. That's where the Xidas have the edge.
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