Build Thread (FE3, RX7 TII, EFR 6258, MS3)
04-06-2016, 11:31 AM
#544
Yeah.. The car felt super predictable in a slide. I knew when it was coming out and when grip was about to come back. Great feeling.
I was at about 8 psi in this video. The drive pressure sensor fitting (brass) got liquidy and snapped in half causing a big leak that i didnt know about till after the event. air / fuels were good through the event when i had a second to glance down at the gauge. Yay speed density!
I was at about 8 psi in this video. The drive pressure sensor fitting (brass) got liquidy and snapped in half causing a big leak that i didnt know about till after the event. air / fuels were good through the event when i had a second to glance down at the gauge. Yay speed density!
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06-16-2016, 11:12 PM
#546
So the Miata did a thing this past week. 13 psi ramping to 17 psi. Super conservative timing and air fuel ratios and tuned on e85. The car is strictly for track use now and i'm genuinely not concerned about MAX horsepower numbers. OOooooOoo ahhhaaahhaaa!
Goal: Lots of torque. Keep cylinder pressure in check. (I'm concerned about the overbore and cracking a sleeve. Hence limiting boost down low.)
Air fuel ratios in the 11.2:1 to 11.5:1 range. (I leaned it out a half point and it picked up 10 horse up top. Put fuel back in for the final pulls though. E85 cars make good power around 12.0:1. Given the use of this car i'm shooting for cooler cylinder temps and the added protection of the richer mix since i'm still running open loop.)
Cam timing is still adjusted for max low end torque. recent compression test results are:
1=265
2=265
3=275
4=260
Cam timing adjusted for less overlap which helps low end power.
Timing. initially pulled out 3 degrees of the map i was running around on. Added a degree and picked up 10 horse. added another and picked up 5 horse. Removed the second degree.
Dyno graph seen is not what the car could potentially make for peak power but its how i'd like to use it for now.
Compare to pump gas tune at 15 ish psi?
Same setup minus different hot side and cold side intercooler piping (much less volume now) and i probably fixed some turbo drive pressure / boost leaks.
The data is cool... and interesting.
Goal: Lots of torque. Keep cylinder pressure in check. (I'm concerned about the overbore and cracking a sleeve. Hence limiting boost down low.)
Air fuel ratios in the 11.2:1 to 11.5:1 range. (I leaned it out a half point and it picked up 10 horse up top. Put fuel back in for the final pulls though. E85 cars make good power around 12.0:1. Given the use of this car i'm shooting for cooler cylinder temps and the added protection of the richer mix since i'm still running open loop.)
Cam timing is still adjusted for max low end torque. recent compression test results are:
1=265
2=265
3=275
4=260
Cam timing adjusted for less overlap which helps low end power.
Timing. initially pulled out 3 degrees of the map i was running around on. Added a degree and picked up 10 horse. added another and picked up 5 horse. Removed the second degree.
Dyno graph seen is not what the car could potentially make for peak power but its how i'd like to use it for now.
Compare to pump gas tune at 15 ish psi?
Same setup minus different hot side and cold side intercooler piping (much less volume now) and i probably fixed some turbo drive pressure / boost leaks.
The data is cool... and interesting.
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06-17-2016, 12:53 PM
#549
I know the power gain at 12:1 is good and the car runs fine like that, My tuner really likes 11.5:1 for E85 cars. He said they seem to last longer that way rather than running that little bit leaner for a small power gain. I still made 400 at 11.5:1 and I trust him, he's making insane power with a 4g and obviously has the dyno and logging at his disposal.
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06-17-2016, 01:05 PM
#550
That's fine, but tells me nothing, and really doesn't answer the question.
E won't knock like pump gas, unless you go insane with timing.
E doesn't run hot like pump gas, so you don't need to fatten it up.
So really, I'd need to hear a valid reason for running e that fat, because I'm genuinely curious why someone would do that. (I've been tuning e85 since 2011 and have yet to see a car at 12:1 have issues)
E won't knock like pump gas, unless you go insane with timing.
E doesn't run hot like pump gas, so you don't need to fatten it up.
So really, I'd need to hear a valid reason for running e that fat, because I'm genuinely curious why someone would do that. (I've been tuning e85 since 2011 and have yet to see a car at 12:1 have issues)
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06-17-2016, 01:16 PM
#551
That's fine, but tells me nothing, and really doesn't answer the question.
E won't knock like pump gas, unless you go insane with timing.
E doesn't run hot like pump gas, so you don't need to fatten it up.
So really, I'd need to hear a valid reason for running e that fat, because I'm genuinely curious why someone would do that. (I've been tuning e85 since 2011 and have yet to see a car at 12:1 have issues)
E won't knock like pump gas, unless you go insane with timing.
E doesn't run hot like pump gas, so you don't need to fatten it up.
So really, I'd need to hear a valid reason for running e that fat, because I'm genuinely curious why someone would do that. (I've been tuning e85 since 2011 and have yet to see a car at 12:1 have issues)
He's a pretty well respected tuner in the area and worked with AEM in developing the original ems4, so I have the feeling he knows what he's doing. Anyway OP I think you're on the right track.
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06-17-2016, 01:22 PM
#552
That's cool. But I like to think for myself, so I'll be waiting for a (hopefully) better explanation from yank then "well this one guy is really popular so I just blindly take his word for it and refuse to comprehend the logic behind it".
Nothing amuses me more than how much faith people place into people that are popular without even attempting to think for themselves.
*insert image of some really fast car that someone tuned*
Nothing amuses me more than how much faith people place into people that are popular without even attempting to think for themselves.
*insert image of some really fast car that someone tuned*
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06-17-2016, 01:41 PM
#553
yeah, I just accept that the dude I pay a bunch of money to tune my car properly is well educated on car tuning and theory, and I don't go in there grilling him. He said, I like 11.5 over 12 and I said cool, I don't want my car to blow up and It hasn't. It's neat how that worked out.
Anyways you can call Tony Szirka at UMS tuning and tell him you're some guy from the internet who thinks he's wrong. I'm sure he'd be glad to tell you his reasoning.Telephone:480-446-8863
Anyways you can call Tony Szirka at UMS tuning and tell him you're some guy from the internet who thinks he's wrong. I'm sure he'd be glad to tell you his reasoning.Telephone:480-446-8863
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06-17-2016, 01:43 PM
#554
No need to get offended. If you don't know something, you can just refrain from commenting and "trust your tuner" while the rest of us have a conversation about it. Many of the regulars here think for themselves, and build and tune our own cars.
I don't care what some tuner somewhere does, UNLESS they explain the concept and/or approach. If they can't or they wont, then the info is of little to no value. One of the reasons I got into tuning cars is because of this very reason. Every car I tune, I will literally discuss the whole process in great detail with the customer if they ask.
LOL @ posting his number. U mad bro?
Anyways, back to Yanks thread (sorry for the thread drift (no pun intended
))
I don't care what some tuner somewhere does, UNLESS they explain the concept and/or approach. If they can't or they wont, then the info is of little to no value. One of the reasons I got into tuning cars is because of this very reason. Every car I tune, I will literally discuss the whole process in great detail with the customer if they ask.
LOL @ posting his number. U mad bro?
Anyways, back to Yanks thread (sorry for the thread drift (no pun intended
))
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06-17-2016, 02:56 PM
#555
Cliffnotes:
A: my tuner does this value
B: why
A: he tunes cars
B: ok, but why said value
A: because dyno
B: here are some reasons why this challenges conventional knowledge and am open to learning something new based on someone else experience backed with reason
A: Tuner be praised, this heathen needs to see the guiding light. #posts gods phone number
B: why
A: he tunes cars
B: ok, but why said value
A: because dyno
B: here are some reasons why this challenges conventional knowledge and am open to learning something new based on someone else experience backed with reason
A: Tuner be praised, this heathen needs to see the guiding light. #posts gods phone number
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06-18-2016, 07:19 PM
#556
Vlads right, leaner is better with E, it might even be better for longevity since you'll be watering down your oil less. He probably does it for safety on cars he tunes for when you get varied E85 quality at the pump, thats when you can run into issues that being in the richer side of being fast helps.
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06-22-2016, 02:11 AM
#557
Sorry guys i'm not on here much.
Reasoning for running this "fat"
Its a track car only. I'm not concerned about fuel consumption especially under WOT. Yes i'm robbing the car of power but running it a little richer has some benefits. Less overall thermal load on the engine and built in safety on an open loop tune. I'm not hurting for power right now at my skill level with the wheel / tire / aero i'm currently running. I have a stupid amount of money in this car and i need it to last along time. Any extra insurance i'll take. I'm 100% sure i wouldn't have any issues at 12:1 if all systems were functioning properly (and I'd probably pick up another 15whp). 0 missfire issues.
If you think i'm hurting my engine by running 4-7% more rich i'm all ears.
I'm running around an 8 quart oil system right now. It gets changed once or twice a season. 4-5 events per season so far. Trailered to any event more than an hour away.
Reasoning for running this "fat"
Its a track car only. I'm not concerned about fuel consumption especially under WOT. Yes i'm robbing the car of power but running it a little richer has some benefits. Less overall thermal load on the engine and built in safety on an open loop tune. I'm not hurting for power right now at my skill level with the wheel / tire / aero i'm currently running. I have a stupid amount of money in this car and i need it to last along time. Any extra insurance i'll take. I'm 100% sure i wouldn't have any issues at 12:1 if all systems were functioning properly (and I'd probably pick up another 15whp). 0 missfire issues.
If you think i'm hurting my engine by running 4-7% more rich i'm all ears.
I'm running around an 8 quart oil system right now. It gets changed once or twice a season. 4-5 events per season so far. Trailered to any event more than an hour away.
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06-22-2016, 02:13 AM
#558
SADFab Destructive Testing Engineer
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All your e85 is from the same pump. And it's the only pump in the state. Probably decent quality. No experience tuning e85 though. Any good white papers out there with real research?
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