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Ok, I guess it's time to start a build thread. I find logging things over time helps me (and hopefully helps others). Also, I'm new to the Miata platform so it gives me a place to ask some questions and hopefully some folks can stop by periodically and throw in their 2 cents. Why a Miata? Well that's an easy answer. Because it's cheap, fun, and an awesome platform. I want a solid/fun track car and not have to worry too much if I happen to have an accident on track. I have an s2k I used to track a fair bit and want to get back into it. Life and kids got in the way for a while and I'm hoping to get some time to get back on track at least a handful of times per year. The car will just be designed to win the HPDE cup and have fun. No TT/etc.
I will say I did give some serious thought to a new BRZ/GR86 for a track car (it's a little bigger (can bring a set of wheels to the track), more power, no rollbar reqd, etc) but ultimately the engine being a Subaru turd was sort of the deciding factor for me which pushed me to the Miata.
The plan is a low powerish turbo setup (<250whp) to have fun. I'm not trying to set lap records and I'm setting a hard cap on the car for common sense reasons. Any platform has its limits where you hit the law of diminishing returns $, reliability, and fun wise. For the Miata that seems to be ~250whp. I debated going the k swap route, but it looks like a solid ~$12k to do a k24a2 swap right. I think with a turbo setup it can be reliable and plenty of fun. My first track day back in 2013 I had an awesome instructor. Bob Hammond. He had a miata with a FM turbo kit and I want to say RA1's? Anyway.. he took me for a couple ride alongs and I was quite impressed. His kit was just the "base" kit with no intercooler but it was quick. He laughed when he told me the cost to run the Miata for a whole season was the same cost to run his old GT3 for one day.
So here's the starting point of the car. I picked it up from a friend of a friend, a local SSM racer that had it sitting around with similar plans of my own, but changed his mind. It's a 5 speed (I think with a Torsen). It's been a while since I've driven a Miata and I forgot how fun these cars are! A light car, good shifter, short gearing makes for fun. Heel toeing was a little tricky as the brakes feel a little squishy but I'm hoping some maintenance and upgrades will fix that. Also, I noticed the car seems to sort of "crash" over bumps on the drive home. Maybe some bushings are shot and causing harshness? I'm hoping that's it. The car mods wise came with BC coilovers and enkei rpf1s. I checked the settings and they are just a few clicks from full soft so I don't think it's the coilovers. Once I start wrenching I'm hoping it'll be apparent what the problem is but I'm guessing it's bushings.
The car seems to be in very good shape overall with just a few small rust spots (surface only) that I will of course touch up. Also there's just a ton of small maintenance that needs to be done but is pretty easy. It's needed some TLC so I've been cleaning it up, replacing some parts and refurbishing some parts. I replaced the cowl panel, window trim, and repainted the wiper arms to satisfy my inner ricer. I find it cathartic working on an older car and making it nicer again.
So first question, does this wing do anything aero wise? I'm guessing not much or nearly nothing..? I noticed the outter window seal is cracked/damaged underneath it right in the middle. It seems to be a semi common issue from a quick search. I haven't pulled the wing off yet as it'll expose the damaged seal.. it looks like it's just double sided sticky taped on..
Here's my helper changing the oil.
With black friday around the corner I need to order a bunch more stuff. Since the bushings are old I will be replacing them. I started to look at the different poly/delrin options, but I think I'm going to just run the IL motorsports rubber ones to keep it simple. My plan is to do all the maintenance and hit a couple track weekends in the spring. Later next year I'll install a kraken top mount setup. At this point I'm looking to run Konig Freeforms in 15x9.5 with 245/40/15 200TW tires. It looks like RS4's are out of stock so I'll have to look into some other options. I don't have a tow rig/trailer so I plan on driving to the track. I got a set of BroFab hubs front and rear and will run the Afco 11.75x1.25" BBK up front with calipier brackets to run the larger sport rotors in the rear. The engine has 120k miles on it but these things seem reliable so we'll see how it holds up. I will run a skunk2 TB as recommended by folks here. Given the age of the car, I'm replacing all the ball joints, motor mounts, most rubber bits I can. The AC will be removed. I'm on the fence regarding power steering. I guess for now I will just leave it. Seats/harnesses (I have a hans) I'm debating on. Likely order an M2 Sport harddog.
Anything I'm missing I'm all ears. It looks like the Megasquirt is the goto standalone for miatas. It looks like the latest version is largely plug and play? It allows to delete the MAF sensor and switch to speed density. Does this have any real benefit NA or not really..? I will need one eventually so am tempted to pull the trigger during the BF sale. I haven't thought too much about aero yet either but I want to avoid a big front splitter since it'll be driven on the street. I'm also hoping Singular hood vents when I put the turbo on will aid in front aero and balance out a rear wing. I know 9LR is usually a solid option for a rear wing. Appreciate the help and answers thus far from folks!
Love to see it! Looks like you’ve been doing your due diligence and asking the right questions on here. Excited to see the build progress. At 120k miles, your engine is probably pristine inside as long as the PO kept up on basic maintenance.
Side note, sweet garage. Having access to a lift speeds up the build process by a factor of two, maybe three
Love to see it! Looks like you’ve been doing your due diligence and asking the right questions on here. Excited to see the build progress. At 120k miles, your engine is probably pristine inside as long as the PO kept up on basic maintenance.
Side note, sweet garage. Having access to a lift speeds up the build process by a factor of two, maybe three
I think the previous owners did do basic maintenance like oil changes regularly so I'm hoping it'll be solid.
Thanks. I actually just got the 4 post (it's mainly for keeping another car in the garage), and it's been nice for some fluid changes and any work that has clear access to the underside of the car (like dropping the tranny). I don't have a bridge jack so I'll take it off the lift for most work and do it w/ jack stands. A lift does speed up the process but then add back in a wife and kids and you need to divide by 4 or 5.
That's a pretty nice looking '99. Your suspension crashing is likely trashed bump stops. Many aftermarket coilovers for Miatas are lacking travel, especially in the rear and wipe out the bumpstops quickly. I'm not familiar with the BCs, so can't say for sure. I just went through the whole suspension on my '99 (new everything, ILM bushings, Tecna coilovers), and it was a huge improvement. I can say that $$$ spent in suspension is $$$ well spent on Miatas. I have Xidas on our track car and the Tecnas on the street car, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anyone. The Xidas especially are amazing at making track spring rates seem plush on the street.
Be careful with the rear seal/glass on the hardtop. IIRC, the glass is NLA, and you've got about a 50% chance of breaking it trying to remove it.
I ran an NB engine n/a on MS3 in our track car for a few years, and it's a great solution. You won't make a lot of hp removing the MAF, but it really cleans up the engine compartment. Power levels for BPs with mods and standalones are pretty well documented on Supermiata's site. You'll need it for the turbo, so why not start now. I'm on a similar path with our NB... once I finish up the K swap on the race car, it's getting the BP that came out and an MS3 PnP. Once that's tuned up, I have a Kraken/GT2560R setup on the shelf. It's 100% street car, though...
That's a pretty nice looking '99. Your suspension crashing is likely trashed bump stops. Many aftermarket coilovers for Miatas are lacking travel, especially in the rear and wipe out the bumpstops quickly. I'm not familiar with the BCs, so can't say for sure. I just went through the whole suspension on my '99 (new everything, ILM bushings, Tecna coilovers), and it was a huge improvement. I can say that $$$ spent in suspension is $$$ well spent on Miatas. I have Xidas on our track car and the Tecnas on the street car, and wouldn't hesitate to recommend them to anyone. The Xidas especially are amazing at making track spring rates seem plush on the street.
Be careful with the rear seal/glass on the hardtop. IIRC, the glass is NLA, and you've got about a 50% chance of breaking it trying to remove it.
I ran an NB engine n/a on MS3 in our track car for a few years, and it's a great solution. You won't make a lot of hp removing the MAF, but it really cleans up the engine compartment. Power levels for BPs with mods and standalones are pretty well documented on Supermiata's site. You'll need it for the turbo, so why not start now. I'm on a similar path with our NB... once I finish up the K swap on the race car, it's getting the BP that came out and an MS3 PnP. Once that's tuned up, I have a Kraken/GT2560R setup on the shelf. It's 100% street car, though...
I'm pretty sure the car was repainted and they did a fairly good job. Thanks that makes sense. I will take a look at the coilovers and see if there are bumpstops missing or what. I hear you on suspension. I've learned this lesson over the years and the expression buy once cry once applies. I have a set of KWV3's on my s2k and while they're not the best coilovers out there they are solid and ride very well with stiffer springs (I just turn the rebound stiffness down on the street). I think someone said good shocks are like fine wine.. it's hard to put your finger on what makes them good but you know when you try it.
Gotcha thanks that's good to know. Ya I'd certainly be wary trying to remove the seal myself. Worst case I was thinking if I remove the spoiler on the hardtop I might just have to ghetto rig the small missing section and use some black silicone to cover the hole that replaces the damaged part of the seal.
OP, give the man a cat! Around here that's how we show our appreciation for a helpful post, good information, etc. Bottom right corner, neg cats are of course the opposite.
FWIW a number of the track Miata folks I know have started using Beer Money Motorsport's ECUs, favoring them over the Megasquirt (I've got an MS3X in my car, no complaints). Uses Tunerstudio software, same as a Megasquirt. BMM has Black Friday sale going on, $100 off with code turkey&beer100 - something to consider.
FWIW a number of the track Miata folks I know have started using Beer Money Motorsport's ECUs, favoring them over the Megasquirt (I've got an MS3X in my car, no complaints). Uses Tunerstudio software, same as a Megasquirt. BMM has Black Friday sale going on, $100 off with code turkey&beer100 - something to consider.
Do you mind elaborating or sharing more info on the BMM ECU vs MS? It looks like SpeedyFI is also an option. Obviously there are the "big boy" ECUs like haltech, motec, etc. but those are obviously pricey and less user/diy friendly.
Do you mind elaborating or sharing more info on the BMM ECU vs MS? It looks like SpeedyFI is also an option. Obviously there are the "big boy" ECUs like haltech, motec, etc. but those are obviously pricey and less user/diy friendly.
One of the more important factors in "which ECU" is which ECUs your tuner is experienced with/prefers. Unless you're going to DIY all the tuning, it's worth having a conversation with the tuner before choosing an ECU.
One of the more important factors in "which ECU" is which ECUs your tuner is experienced with/prefers. Unless you're going to DIY all the tuning, it's worth having a conversation with the tuner before choosing an ECU.
Yep gotcha.. I'm familiar tuning Hondatas and I'd expect that MS and similar ECU's aren't too dissimilar. I'm also not looking to have some crazy/complicated build and really push the limits. If I'm going to primarily run boost pressure off the wastegate ~8psi I think I can handle the tuning duties. There's a lot of similarities with my s2k (ethanol sensor, GM AIT sensor, etc.).
Jeez the Miata rabbit hole sure is deep. I came across speedyFI and ME442 plug in ecu's. From what I've gathered so far, it looks like the BBM ECU is based off of an open source ecu platform? That's good and bad in my book. Good as it's usually quite modular and adaptable but bad in the sense that there could be many different hardware iterations and headaches because of different iterations. Sometimes the good old Apple/Msft closed ecosystem just works and open source isn't necessarily better.. As a software dev I see this firsthand. The price sure is tempting though.. I will do some digging..
Does anyone have an opinion on aero for an hpde car that'll see some street miles as well? I'm not going to put a lot of street miles on the car but on occasion I'd like to take it out.
For the rear wing, is there a good option that's trunk mounted or easily removeable? 9LR rear wing seems like the goto in terms of a good L/D ratio but being chassis mounted it's not ideal for putzing on the street. I'm not necessarily against it but curious on other options. I've seen the APR GTC 200 that's trunk mounted and looks like a nice wing also. I know there are usually compromises with wings.
For the front, is there a good front lip/splitter option that is streetable? It looks like 9LR sells a nice air dam which I guess is the goto option? Appreciate any opinions. I haven't looked at all into aero and looks like there are some nice sales going on.
Edit: At this point I'm probably going to forego aero for this next year as I'll have my hands full with everything else. Interesting to hear if anyone has thoughts on aero. Seems like the full 9lr setup is obviously the goto for a pure track car.
Does anyone have an opinion on aero for an hpde car that'll see some street miles as well? I'm not going to put a lot of street miles on the car but on occasion I'd like to take it out.
This past winter I added the full Nine Lives Racing aero kit to my Miata and for the most part don't find it unstreetable. It definitely gets some attention, but you can still use the trunk (it may not open all the way depending on the angle and how far back you mount the wing), and the splitter doesn't scrape too much if you are careful and don't mount it too low. I also don't have a tow rig and drive my car to and from all events.
That being said I do think it makes sense to hold off on the aero for a bit. It was nice to see the before/after from a handling perspective. I also got (most) of my off track excursions out of the way without the aero, going off track and breaking the splitter is no fun.
Welcome! Looking forward to following this build thread. Looks like we're in relatively similar positions (wanting to build something track oriented without loosing the ability to street).It's helpful to watch someone think through some of the same questions - like which ECU to get, for example. This platform (the NA/NB) has been around for so long, sifting through all the information on the internet can get a little hectic to say the least.
Originally Posted by SlowTeg
Does anyone have an opinion on aero for an hpde car that'll see some street miles as well? I'm not going to put a lot of street miles on the car but on occasion I'd like to take it out.
I have no experience with this, but I did jump for the 9LR medium downforce kit black Friday sale myself... I think worst case scenario, we can remove the splitter and **** and the car will fly under the radar on the street with the wing uprights and air dam.
Originally Posted by SlowTeg
Edit: At this point I'm probably going to forego aero for this next year as I'll have my hands full with everything else.
This past winter I added the full Nine Lives Racing aero kit to my Miata and for the most part don't find it unstreetable. It definitely gets some attention, but you can still use the trunk (it may not open all the way depending on the angle and how far back you mount the wing), and the splitter doesn't scrape too much if you are careful and don't mount it too low. I also don't have a tow rig and drive my car to and from all events.
That being said I do think it makes sense to hold off on the aero for a bit. It was nice to see the before/after from a handling perspective. I also got (most) of my off track excursions out of the way without the aero, going off track and breaking the splitter is no fun.
That looks purdy. Thanks ya at this point I'm not sure what route I'm gonna go but holding off on installing any aero for a while seems like the sensible thing to do. The difference pre-aero to post-aero is usually pretty dramatic (especially with a big ****) and it's cool to do a before and after. I am sorta debating the 9LR street wing as it simply has less "presence" and it might be fun driving my kid to soccer on occasion. I'm definitely a little wary of low/large splitters because off track excursions will surely do damage. I've had a handful (or so) of 4 offs and I'm sure I'll have more to come. I'm ok making an aero tradeoff for streetability being just an HPDE car. Appreciate your advice.
Welcome! Looking forward to following this build thread. Looks like we're in relatively similar positions (wanting to build something track oriented without loosing the ability to street).It's helpful to watch someone think through some of the same questions - like which ECU to get, for example. This platform (the NA/NB) has been around for so long, sifting through all the information on the internet can get a little hectic to say the least.
I have no experience with this, but I did jump for the 9LR medium downforce kit black Friday sale myself... I think worst case scenario, we can remove the splitter and **** and the car will fly under the radar on the street with the wing uprights and air dam.
Probably a good, responsible idea haha.
Ya it inevitably might turn into mostly track (swapping pads for events can get a little annoying amongst other things) but I'm going to try to make it work. I ordered the BMM ECU.. the sale and capabilities (built in wideband controller) made it a no brainer imo. I also YOLOd and just ordered Recaro PP's as I know they fit me, the car, and are comfy. I got the ABE version and will use 3 points on the street. I gotta figure out which rails to run and how I'll mount a buckle for the oem belt but shouldn't be too bad. If anyone has advice I'm all ears. The NA/NB platform has been around so long that what many people consider "common knowledge" is new to me. I'm debating on just buying the street **** and letting it sit around till next year (inflation's a bitch) with the 9LR sale but we'll see. Gotta decide by today..
I was going to skip some of the maintenance stuff with the car, but what the heck I'll post it here. I personally find it cathartic working on the car and fixing the little maintenance issues with it. An old car is going to have issues and maintenance needs. First thing after getting the car is cleaning out behind the fender liners. They fill with **** and when it gets wet that's probably what leads to the rusted out sections with wet debris sitting against the metal. Not too hard to do, just gotta undo the bottom of the fender and fender liner and scoop out the crap and use an air chuck to blow it out.
Another thing is the car's window trim and cowl panel were in bad shape. I ordered replacements from Moss (I think they're made by IL Motorsports). Replacements were easy. I also order window bushings as they were shot and driver's side window rattled like a champ on the way home.
The wipers were also rusting so they got some TLC with some rattle cans. Sanded them down and hung them in my spray booth. Nice and fresh now. Everything went on smoothly.
The softtop has a tear in it and I don't plan on removing the hardtop so out it came.
Headlights also needed some TLC. I just used a Meguiars kit to restore them. Hopefully the clear I applied keeps them from fogging again.
I also got some Moss miata delrin door bushings. I'm not sure how I feel about them just yet. I still have to fine tune and sand them down a bit more. The passenger door is a bitch to close, I need to sand the bushings a bit more as they're tight. I got a new headunit and door speakers as well and gave the interior a good clean and protective coat. It's all shiney now.
This isn't Miata related exactly but I got the 4 post just after the Miata (I prefer not parking cars outside). I had my garage door raised and jackshaft opener installed a few months ago in preparation for a 4 post at some point. My ceiling height is about 11'. I went with a bendpak hd7w. The quote to install it was about $1300 and I like projects so opted to just install it myself. I did not get the bridge jack as my main use for the lift will be car storage rather than working on cars. A quick summary is the installation is simple and not hard to DIY but things are heavy and cumbersome. Unless you're a bodybuilder you will want at least a few jacks to move things around and ideally a hoist. A friend let me borrow his hoist and it was a life saver for unloading the runways and setting the runways in place. I'm glad I assembled it as I know exactly how it works should I have issues down the road.
Delivery of the lift costs $3-400 because they need a forklift to remove it so I opted to just pick it up instead. I am fortunate to have friends with trucks and one has a nice 20' trailer he let me borrow. The lift is long (I wanna say 17'ish). The hardest part with removing it off the trailer is the runways. Everything else can be moved by hand with a few guys imo.
Here's all the parts sitting in the garage.
And here it is operational. It is a little tighter in the garage but not horrible. I do have to remove the ramps before lowering it down completely as it won't clear the garage door. The garage is a typical builder size garage and is not even quite 20' from drywall to garage door where the lift is. What it means is I probably can't put long vehicles on the lift to change oil/etc, but that's the tradeoff I made. I didn't wanna move my workbench and stuff in front of that bay. I opted for the 110V plug in model. One thing the initial saleman didn't mention is that during operation the initial power draw is ~25amps on lift startup. During operation it's apparently <20amp. So, if you have a 20amp breaker, it will pop the breaker. Fortunately I have a dedicated circuit in the corner for my compressor with 10gauge wiring so I swapped the 20amp breaker for a 30amp. After I did that it worked as expected.
Last thing to do will be to drill holes in the concrete for the concrete anchors. This is more just to keep the lift from shimmying/moving at all. Sometimes it can move a bit over time.
11-18-2023, 09:32 AM
HPDE NB1 fun car
I find it cathartic working on an older car and making it nicer again.
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