Shuiend tries built motor #4, lets see how I break this one - Page 9 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 08-05-2010, 01:40 PM   #161
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If you used your original housing, it is not a problem. Mazda started shipping the larger oil pumps as replacement parts after the 01+ pumps came out.

All 99/00 cars shipped from the factory with the smaller *non-VVT* oil pumps.

Shieund: Post 23 of my build thread is where I detailed my own oil pump fiasco. Try the steps I've outlined and see if your problem mirrors mine.
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Old 08-05-2010, 01:43 PM   #162
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WAIT WAIT WAIT.....

Billet oil pump gears. What oil pump housing?

If you bought standard billet gears from travis, they're going to be for the NA housing. You have to specify NB gears if you want NB gears. They are about 20 thousandths of an inch thicker than NA Gears. Mazda increased the size of the oil pumps in 01 in order to add oil flow for the VVT. They later replaced the 99-00 part number with the higher flowing 01 pumps. If you order an NA oil pump part number, you'll still get the smaller oil pump which correctly fits the standard BE Gears.

The additional 20 thousandths of an inch gap is enough to allow air to flow across the face of the gears from the high pressure side to the low pressure side. The resulting outcome is that your oil pump WILL NOT SELF PRIME. However, once it has oil in the actual pump, the viscosity of the oil is high enough that your pump will correctly move oil. You'll see oil pressure as high as 90psi cold (pressure relief valve opens at 90psi). The only solution is to remove the oil pump and replace the housing with a standard NA housing, or replace the gears with Travis's special request NB gears.

Go Ahead.....ask me how i know....
I got the OPG from Travis back when the first group buy was going on. I believe that was before we knew that the NB gears were different. Now I used the oil pump off the 94 block that I got from BRGRacer so I should have the correct gears for the NA Pump.

The game plan now is once I am in SC to work on Priming the oil pump and see if that gets me oil pressure. I am hoping my relief valve in the OP works, as I don't think I actually checked it.
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Old 08-05-2010, 09:44 PM   #163
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All 99/00 cars shipped from the factory with the smaller *non-VVT* oil pumps.
So the distinction is VVT vs. non-VVT and not NA vs. NB, correct?

I hope shuiend didn't pack his oil pump full of grease, including the main voids.
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Old 08-05-2010, 11:29 PM   #164
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If he put anything in it it was redline assembly lube because I left him a whole brand new tub of it. That stuff will clear out easily, its not grease.
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Old 08-06-2010, 02:03 AM   #165
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So the distinction is VVT vs. non-VVT and not NA vs. NB, correct?

I hope shuiend didn't pack his oil pump full of grease, including the main voids.
The distinction for factory original pumps is VVT vs non-VVT.

The distinction for factory replacement pumps seems to be NA vs NB.

So: your 99-00 car would only have the VVT pump housing installed if you replaced the original oil pump with a factory new oil pump. (And only if you ordered your new factory replacement oil pump AFTER mazda changed the specs for that part number)

I don't know when mazda decided to change the part on the 99-00 pumps to the larger pump. For all I know, the change was actually made in July of 2000 when Mazda begain producing the 2001 cars; The change could have happened much later though, perhaps if Mazda decided to consolidate part numbers to save casting costs.

The only easy way to identify the larger oil pump housing is by the casting number on the outside of the oil pump. The larger oil pumps have a casting identification which ends in "6D" (so BP6D) I forget where exactly the casting mark is, but I do know that it is on the forward face of the pump (Perhaps under the crank pulley). There are at least two different casting variations on the non-VVT oil pumps, one of them is "4A" (BP4A).

I don't know the casting system used, maybe "6D" means "revision 6, mold D", but all of the VVT pumps that I've seen (A small handful) are identified "BP6D"

Suffice it to say that if your oil pump self-primes quickly and reliably on every start, then your oil pump gears/oil pump housing are correctly sized relative to one another. A VVT oil pump with non-VVT oil pump gears will NOT self-prime after it sits for about 45 minutes, and the hot oil drains back into the pain.
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Old 08-06-2010, 03:35 AM   #166
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If he put anything in it it was redline assembly lube because I left him a whole brand new tub of it. That stuff will clear out easily, its not grease.
I dunno man, the stuff looks like grease to me. Packing the voids in the oil pump will probably clog it. I was warned about the "pack with vaseline" trick by my machinist. He said if I use anything greasy to only put it in the small gaps and not to fill the voids with it. Only oil should go in the voids. He knew someone who ruined a motor that way.

I used assembly *oil* inside mine and then primed it with thick oil via the allen plug and it pumped oil up to the head pretty instantly when I turned the crank with my drill.
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:28 AM   #167
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I've done it a billion times, without fail. It's not the issue.
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Old 08-06-2010, 08:53 AM   #168
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anything oil based (redline assembly lube, for instance) will dissolve in oil. assembly lubes are specifically designed to pack and lubricate the engine until the parts see oil. The lube then dissolves in the oil. The result is that your first fill of oil is of slightly higher viscosity. The assembly lube all comes out at your first oil change (which shouldn't be any more than a couple hundred miles anyways) To many, Redline Assembly Lube is the "gold standard"
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Old 08-06-2010, 12:22 PM   #169
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neo, did you stuff your oil pump full, including all the voids between the lobes?
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:18 PM   #170
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Car is ready to be towed to SC. The Saga of my failures will continue on August 17th when I get down there for good.
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:24 PM   #171
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i hope it fails off on the way down.
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Old 08-06-2010, 07:33 PM   #172
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i hope it fails off on the way down.
You know if that happens, your the first person I call and ask to come help.
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Old 08-06-2010, 09:38 PM   #173
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neo, did you stuff your oil pump full, including all the voids between the lobes?
Yes, with redline assembly lube.
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Old 08-07-2010, 05:30 PM   #174
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Good luck movin' Lars.

Hope you like your new home.
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:00 PM   #175
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Car is at its new home. When I get down for good I will hopefully figure out the oil pressure issue.

Last edited by Braineack; 08-12-2010 at 06:12 PM.
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Old 08-07-2010, 10:09 PM   #176
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Dont stop baby keep pushing
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Old 08-12-2010, 02:36 PM   #177
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Not really a good update, but I just bought an MS3X so as soon as I get oil pressure I can switch to sequential fuel and spark.

I head down to SC on Monday and should be back under the car early Tuesday morning.
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Old 08-12-2010, 03:07 PM   #178
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can you rotate the pic?
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Old 08-12-2010, 03:18 PM   #179
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I thought it was pretty easy to turn my head sideways. If I had a messed up neck, I'd probably pick up my laptop and turn it sideways instead...
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Old 08-12-2010, 04:55 PM   #180
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can you rotate the pic?
I will try tonight, I am not sure why it ended up that way.
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