Originally Posted by Braineack
This argument is invalid if states that require citizens to have an ID and enact a voter ID law, issue free IDs... you hear that TX?
or if you simply do the math and tell me how much addtional cost it requires a OH voter to vote if an ID is required.
As I think about it, this is a good time to point something out.
Measuring the Effects of Voter Identification Laws - NYTimes.com
This suppresses up to 2.4% of the voting population from Not Voting. Not a few here or there, a very large amount (Tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands, in one state's case potentially in the range of low millions) of voters are not voting. Let me reiterate, potentially up to low millions of voters may have legislation introduced that either directly or indirectly prevents them from voting.
There has yet to be any proven case of the systemic fraud Republicans allege in modern elections. I know, I know, you are going to hit back with that ridiculous argument about 10,000 dead people on voting polls....
The problem with that argument, and what makes it ridiculous is yes, people voted in the previous election. Then people died. This is expected behavior
. The logical construction of this argument is "If you vote, you can't die". There is no sane reason to expect this. People die between the election, what you have to do when you say this is and then prove the people who died voted in a later election after they died
. There is no evidence of this, only people dying after they voted!
Now, as for the Kansas argument. Waiting for evidence | Wichita Eagle
- It's been debunked. By Kansas themselves.
Now let's take an even more careful look at Kansas. They alleged 221 cases of voter fraud from 1997 to 2010, but upon further inspection of 221 of these cases, not a single case of voter fraud could be found
. Several cases of supposed voter fraud in their grouping was a military member's absentee ballot not matching their signature on file - yes, seriously. The implication of voter fraud is deployed military members not matching their signature on file
. Many other cases of supposed voter fraud include parents mailing their at-university children's ballots, and similar insanity. But let's just assume for a second that every single one of these ballots were fraudulent, shall we? That's somewhere around 16 fraudulent votes per year.
Let's assume for a second Kansas's law is at the low end of estimated voter suppression schemes, and it's a measly 0.8%. Kansas is estimated to have about 3million people*, or about 24,000 votes suppressed per election. In trade for an estimated ~16 fraudulent-votes-that-have-never-been-proven-fraudulent per year.
I'll go through any state you want Brainy, any
state you want. The numbers are the same universally. You see a handful of incidents of true voter fraud per election in the worst case (We're talking single digits at most, if not completely zero), and it's typically of the variety in the vein of Kansas. Specifically, someone goes to the DMV, applies for something, and then the DMV asks them if they want to register to vote.
Finally, I'm just going to use Pennsylvania. Pennsylvania GOPers Concede That Voter Fraud Claims Are a Myth | Addicting Info
Voter ID law has nothing to do with fraudulent voting. Even if you give every single possible allegedly fraudulent vote over 13 years in Kansas (Which has already been debunked anyways
), you end up with an incidence of voting fraud that is so low that I cannot characterize it in any way other than a rounding error. And even given these assumptions, Kansas is trying to eliminate their alleged-but-proven-false voter fraud cases by passing laws that will cause a portion of the population orders of magnitude
larger not to vote.
Now, I know what you are going to come back with Brainy. But Republicans in Wisconsin already proved that false. Due to how Republicans in Wisconsin crafted their voter ID law, college IDs are not eligible for one specific reason. They meet every other criteria
, except that they do not have an expiration date. Their solution? Add an expiration date.
But then the Republicans in Wisconsin started whining about how if that is allowed, it will only increase voter fraud and they cannot allow college IDs that meet all the requirements of their voter ID law. If an ID meets every criteria that is set by the Republican's bill, how on earth can it aid voter fraud
unless their bill has nothing to do with voter fraud in the first place
I don't know your professional background Brainy. But in my professional background, under no circumstances do we replace a working algorithm in code for another algorithm that is provably and substantially orders of magnitude worse due to some level of paranoia that was easily proven false. If I did that, I'd be fired.
*Source: Kansas QuickFacts from the US Census Bureau