Emissions
01-13-2014, 04:17 PM
#41
I have been on both sides. I stayed on the MS side but didn't despise either one or either of the user base.
I didn't suggest the adaptronic over the ms. I simply listed it as an option. Its definitely better than any of the piggybacks listed so far, since it works in parallel instead of actual piggyback.
I think once you REALLY look into it, you'll notice why there are so few properly built piggy back or even parallel powered miata's, and come to the same conclusions as most of us have.
Which is why I gave you grief about asking this question in the 1st place.
I didn't suggest the adaptronic over the ms. I simply listed it as an option. Its definitely better than any of the piggybacks listed so far, since it works in parallel instead of actual piggyback.
I think once you REALLY look into it, you'll notice why there are so few properly built piggy back or even parallel powered miata's, and come to the same conclusions as most of us have.
Which is why I gave you grief about asking this question in the 1st place.
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01-13-2014, 04:17 PM
#42
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In this case, there has simply been a long-running debate which borders on the religious between proponents of the MS (who think the Adaptronic ECUs are too damned expensive and their users a bunch of mindless sheep who don't understand anything about how engine management and tuning works beyond writing large checks to pay for it) and proponents of the Adaptronic (who believe that the MS is a poorly-documented clusterfuck of a science-fair project, and that its users are a bunch of cheap-*** nerds who are willing to tolerate lots of bullshit and agony in order to save a buck.)
Both sides are correct.
Both sides are correct.
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01-13-2014, 07:10 PM
#43
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I have been on both sides. I stayed on the MS side but didn't despise either one or either of the user base.
I didn't suggest the adaptronic over the ms. I simply listed it as an option. Its definitely better than any of the piggybacks listed so far, since it works in parallel instead of actual piggyback.
I think once you REALLY look into it, you'll notice why there are so few properly built piggy back or even parallel powered miata's, and come to the same conclusions as most of us have.
Which is why I gave you grief about asking this question in the 1st place.
I didn't suggest the adaptronic over the ms. I simply listed it as an option. Its definitely better than any of the piggybacks listed so far, since it works in parallel instead of actual piggyback.
I think once you REALLY look into it, you'll notice why there are so few properly built piggy back or even parallel powered miata's, and come to the same conclusions as most of us have.
Which is why I gave you grief about asking this question in the 1st place.
Wait, please explain more on the parallel part of adaptronic. Do you mean its internally wired to run in parallel instead of splicing the harness like you would for ms or did I miss something?
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01-13-2014, 07:15 PM
#44
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In theory, this would happen with any engine management system which retains the stock ECU, including purely mechanical approaches such as a rising-rate fuel pressure regulator.
In actual practice, this has shown not to be a chronic problem for most reasonably-sized streetable turbo systems.
One CEL I have heard of a lot with Xede is P0300 (Random Misfire), a side-effect of the fact that most folks seem to use the Xede to bump up the ignition advance in the cruise cells. Easily avoided.
If you were referring to 18PSIs, post, understand that people sometimes use sarcasm in ways that are obvious to "insiders" (eg: those who have been around for a while and know where the skeletons are buried.)
In this case, there has simply been a long-running debate which borders on the religious between proponents of the MS (who think the Adaptronic ECUs are too damned expensive and their users a bunch of mindless sheep who don't understand anything about how engine management and tuning works beyond writing large checks to pay for it) and proponents of the Adaptronic (who believe that the MS is a poorly-documented clusterfuck of a science-fair project, and that its users are a bunch of cheap-*** nerds who are willing to tolerate lots of bullshit and agony in order to save a buck.)
Both sides are correct.
In actual practice, this has shown not to be a chronic problem for most reasonably-sized streetable turbo systems.
One CEL I have heard of a lot with Xede is P0300 (Random Misfire), a side-effect of the fact that most folks seem to use the Xede to bump up the ignition advance in the cruise cells. Easily avoided.
If you were referring to 18PSIs, post, understand that people sometimes use sarcasm in ways that are obvious to "insiders" (eg: those who have been around for a while and know where the skeletons are buried.)
In this case, there has simply been a long-running debate which borders on the religious between proponents of the MS (who think the Adaptronic ECUs are too damned expensive and their users a bunch of mindless sheep who don't understand anything about how engine management and tuning works beyond writing large checks to pay for it) and proponents of the Adaptronic (who believe that the MS is a poorly-documented clusterfuck of a science-fair project, and that its users are a bunch of cheap-*** nerds who are willing to tolerate lots of bullshit and agony in order to save a buck.)
Both sides are correct.
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01-13-2014, 08:00 PM
#45
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In other words, it was a confusing and ambiguous post which did not convey useful information.
Well if you could somehow rescale the maf values and swap over to a larger maf housing then that would be cool, I do this on subarus since they will throw a cel if you hit 5v. Thats why I was trying to see if theres anyone that is able to tune the stock ecu on the miata.
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01-13-2014, 08:04 PM
#46
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There is nothing about the Adaptronic which is any different from any other ECU insofar as a parallel install is concerned. He was comparing the simple act of doing a parallel install of any ECU to installing a "piggyback" ECU, insofar as that it does not act as a signal modifier.
In other words, it was a confusing and ambiguous post which did not convey useful information.
Given that BEGI has dyno charts posted showing >250 HP on Xede-equipped NBs, and we went for years with nothing but stock ECUs, I'm simply not convinced that the problem which you are trying to solve actually exists. The Miata MAF seems to have a lot more headroom than you'd expect.
In other words, it was a confusing and ambiguous post which did not convey useful information.
Given that BEGI has dyno charts posted showing >250 HP on Xede-equipped NBs, and we went for years with nothing but stock ECUs, I'm simply not convinced that the problem which you are trying to solve actually exists. The Miata MAF seems to have a lot more headroom than you'd expect.
I didn't mean to put it that way. I was just thinking ahead, if it did exist. Thanks for the clarification regarding the parallel setup.
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01-13-2014, 11:56 PM
#47
There is nothing about the Adaptronic which is any different from any other ECU insofar as a parallel install is concerned. He was comparing the simple act of doing a parallel install of any ECU to installing a "piggyback" ECU, insofar as that it does not act as a signal modifier.
In other words, it was a confusing and ambiguous post which did not convey useful information.
In other words, it was a confusing and ambiguous post which did not convey useful information.
This can be done with MS using a boomslang. Again, not saying its better or worse, and in fact there was almost none of the "religious following" you seem to think took place on either side so you can stop being a drama queen and making it look like anyone is arguing or getting upset.
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01-14-2014, 12:04 AM
#48
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It comes with its own harness making it easier to set up in parallel
This can be done with MS using a boomslang. Again, not saying its better or worse, and in fact there was almost none of the "religious following" you seem to think took place on either side so you can stop being a drama queen and making it look like anyone is arguing or getting upset.
This can be done with MS using a boomslang. Again, not saying its better or worse, and in fact there was almost none of the "religious following" you seem to think took place on either side so you can stop being a drama queen and making it look like anyone is arguing or getting upset.
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01-14-2014, 03:29 PM
#52
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01-14-2014, 03:59 PM
#56
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Allright, thanks for the help. I'm just worried that once I get the adaptronic I wont be satisfied with the processor speed(choppy power delivery feeling). But again if its a difference too small to notice when comparing to other ecus then I think I have made up my mind lol. Again thanks.
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01-14-2014, 04:20 PM
#58
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The speed of the CPU really has no impact on things like "choppy power delivery." Even an ancient 8 MHz CPU like the one used in the MS1 is so vastly faster than the operational speed of a running engine that, from the CPU's point of view, the engine is barely moving. Things like turning injectors on and off, firing ignition coils, etc, are extremely slow, simple tasks, and they are generally interrupt-driven.
Where fast CPUs become a factor is when you ask the ECU to start doing tasks not directly related to running the engine which involve a lot of math or I/O, such as implementing true PID functions quickly, doing loads of datalogging, etc. It also allows the programmers to be somewhat lazier, by writing everything in C (or worse), and letting the compiler worry about getting the code optimized, as compared to doing everything by hand in assembly.
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