Anyone have any brake questions? - Page 20 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


General Miata Chat A place to talk about anything Miata

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools
Old 05-13-2015, 02:49 PM   #381
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,754
Total Cats: 922
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jko View Post
Noob question here.

I'm on a stock powered 1.8 NA using OEM calipers and Napa 'spec miata' blank rotors with Carbotech XP10 pads front and rear. I keep having this brake 'issue' where after a 30 min session or two I will have a longer pedal, but little change in braking performance. The longer pedal will last for the rest of the day, but seems to mostly disappear over night, with maybe a few lingering effects the next day. I was always convinced it was boiling brake fluid, but whenever I bleed them there are little to no bubbles anywhere. I also switched from OEM brake lines to SS brake lines (thinking it was the rubber lines expanding) but there was little change in this behavior.

However, judging from your quote above, does this sound like a rotor issue more than a pad/fluid/brake line issue? Obviously I'm not too shocked judging from the quality of rotor I am using.
The NAPA blanks are actually pretty good. Probably not the issue. You're just fading the pads or cooking the fluid. If it's under 150whp, it's fluid not cooked pads. As mentioned before in this thread, fresh fluid is a big deal. We bleed after every weekend and if an we run an enduro Saturday, we bleed Saturday night. Completely change the fluid a few times a year. Use quality DOT 4 fluid like virtually every Miata specific vendor carries. Some are slightly better than others but all are vastly better than generic LAPS branded mystery juice. We have had excellent results with Motul RBF600 but there are several good choices.

When flushing the system, always start by draining the master and cleaning and grit or silt in the bottom of the reservoirs. We use IPA (Isopropyl Alcohol) then fill and begin bleeding.
emilio700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2015, 04:49 PM   #382
jko
Newb
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: MD
Posts: 25
Total Cats: 1
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by OGRacing View Post
I'm not thinking it's a rotor issue. a rotor issue will go away and come back during in between turns. if yours last over night i'm leaning towards fluid. i also think the heat is caused by the pad. i think your using too low of a tq compound, combined with some not so fantastic fluid. Lower tq pads have a tendency to get surrounding components hotter. the pads are in use longer vs. a high tq pad, and the heat has more time to leach into the caliper.

What pads are you using on the rear?
what fluid are you using?
Got it. I am using Carbotech XP10's both front and rear on NT01's. As for the not so fantastic fluid, you caught me there... I've just been using the Valvoline Dot3/4 fluid that you find at Autozone. Some local spec miata guys said they were using it fine so I figured I could use it too, and the lack of bubbles during my bleeds seemed to confirm that. I'm going to go back to the ATE brake fluid and give that a try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
The NAPA blanks are actually pretty good. Probably not the issue. You're just fading the pads or cooking the fluid. If it's under 150whp, it's fluid not cooked pads. As mentioned before in this thread, fresh fluid is a big deal. We bleed after every weekend and if an we run an enduro Saturday, we bleed Saturday night. Completely change the fluid a few times a year. Use quality DOT 4 fluid like virtually every Miata specific vendor carries. Some are slightly better than others but all are vastly better than generic LAPS branded mystery juice. We have had excellent results with Motul RBF600 but there are several good choices.

When flushing the system, always start by draining the master and cleaning and grit or silt in the bottom of the reservoirs. We use IPA (Isopropyl Alcohol) then fill and begin bleeding.
Maybe it is the fluid then. As I mentioned above in this post, I have just been using the Valvoline Dot3/4 fluid due to some other spec miata guys experience... The lack of bubbles throws me off though, I do a bleed before/after each weekend and don't see anything unusual at all. A bleed for me usually means 2-3 master cylinders worth of fluid spread out throughout the 4 corners. I will try go back to the ATE stuff and do a full flush. I need to replace a front brake line (found some rubbing on the vinyl coating of my Supermiata brake lines so I just ordered a new set) so this is probably a good time to do the flush.
jko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2015, 05:13 PM   #383
Supporting Vendor
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
 
OGRacing's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2014
Posts: 1,627
Total Cats: 66
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jko View Post
Got it. I am using Carbotech XP10's both front and rear on NT01's. As for the not so fantastic fluid, you caught me there... I've just been using the Valvoline Dot3/4 fluid that you find at Autozone. Some local spec miata guys said they were using it fine so I figured I could use it too, and the lack of bubbles during my bleeds seemed to confirm that. I'm going to go back to the ATE brake fluid and give that a try.
yea we can't use spec miata as a "what to use" for brakes. generally they use the other cars as brakes. bang into fenders n such. on your next set of pads try the pfc 11's. a bit higher tq should match the larger wheels your running. also when buying fluid i would advise to try something with less compress-ability then ATE. the motul 600 is cheap, you can try the PFC fluid. it has some extreme temperature before it boils.( nearly 600*) dry and it's compress-ability is better than CRF. if your dead set on ATE then we have that in stock as well.
OGRacing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2015, 06:15 PM   #384
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Leafy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: NH
Posts: 8,810
Total Cats: 92
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThePass View Post
Ooh monoblock caliper..

11.8" diameter and almost 1" thick rotors.

But dat cost though - $3,000 USD
I see cross bolts on the PU calipers, so probably not monoblock.
Leafy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2015, 06:18 PM   #385
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,640
Total Cats: 292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Leafy View Post
I see cross bolts on the PU calipers, so probably not monoblock.
Those look like just small bridge bolts to me.

-Ryan
ThePass is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2015, 09:12 PM   #386
Moderator
iTrader: (10)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 14,072
Total Cats: 1,164
Default

And to clarify, 949Racing uses the same awesome 11.75 rotors, tophats, and calipers that come from V8Roadsters. I really like mine and both vendors are great to deal with. Both offer the replacement rotors very inexpensively (~$35), and 949 also sells upgraded curved vane rotors if you desire.

The Trackspeed 11.75 kit is different and uses a different tophat and bracketry, from what I understand from their website and forum posts.
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2015, 09:14 PM   #387
SadFab Sales Lady
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 15,858
Total Cats: 1,088
Default

I thought the v8r kit used different hats. And uses dynapros? That needs to be checked though.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2015, 09:31 PM   #388
Moderator
iTrader: (10)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 14,072
Total Cats: 1,164
Default

My V8R kit has the Dynalite and the same hats pictured on the 949 site. And the owner of V8R who is local to me told me personally that he supplies them for 949 Racing and that he thinks Emilio is a great guy.
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2015, 09:36 PM   #389
SadFab Sales Lady
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 15,858
Total Cats: 1,088
Default

Front Big Brake Kit - V8 Roadsters

Dynapro, custom hats that supposedly don't need spacers.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2015, 09:37 PM   #390
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,754
Total Cats: 922
Default

We use V8R brackets & hats. DL4's. I'm still not convinced the DP6 lug mount is a worthwhile upgrade. The little time I spent with them didn't reveal any significant difference in feel, pad life or fade resistance. On paper at least, the 6712 plate (DP6) should have something like 15% longer pad life over the 7112 plate (DL4).

By early 2016 we should have our own, much lower cost 11.0 and 11.75 hardware with matching rear bits. Not a high priority just now since the V8R stuff works. Busy getting the crossflows, billet coaxial perch shock mounts and a bunch of other new top sekrit widgets into production before the end of the year.
emilio700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2015, 09:39 PM   #391
SadFab Sales Lady
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 15,858
Total Cats: 1,088
Default

Looks like we were both right
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2015, 02:53 AM   #392
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,640
Total Cats: 292
Default

V8R used the dynalite 4 (DL4) in the past, and that is the version 949 sells. V8R continued development and moved on to the dynapro 4 (DP4) lug mount, and most recently designed new brackets to switch to the DP4 radial mount. The DP4 and DL4 use the same pads (7112). 949 continues to sell V8R's DL4 kit.

Anyone with a DL4 kit can upgrade to a DP6 caliper as wilwood makes a lug mount version of that caliper with the same lug mount width/offset as the DL4, but like Emilio stated, real world benefits are questionable.

I would be interested to back-to-back a DL4 lug mount kit with a DP4 radial mount kit, since on paper both the caliper itself and the mount design should be more rigid, but doing a proper same day back to back is not very feasible.

-Ryan
ThePass is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2015, 12:40 PM   #393
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: Portland (left coast)
Posts: 214
Total Cats: 2
Default

If people are not seeing a big difference between the pro and light, which one is easier to rebuild?


Quote:
Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
We use V8R brackets & hats. DL4's. I'm still not convinced the DP6 lug mount is a worthwhile upgrade. The little time I spent with them didn't reveal any significant difference in feel, pad life or fade resistance. On paper at least, the 6712 plate (DP6) should have something like 15% longer pad life over the 7112 plate (DL4).

By early 2016 we should have our own, much lower cost 11.0 and 11.75 hardware with matching rear bits. Not a high priority just now since the V8R stuff works. Busy getting the crossflows, billet coaxial perch shock mounts and a bunch of other new top sekrit widgets into production before the end of the year.
tazswing is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-15-2015, 01:06 PM   #394
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
emilio700's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 4,754
Total Cats: 922
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by tazswing View Post
If people are not seeing a big difference between the pro and light, which one is easier to rebuild?
Never rebuilt anything other than the DL4 and that's easy. I assume they are are about the same.
emilio700 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 05:24 PM   #395
SadFab Sales Lady
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 15,858
Total Cats: 1,088
Default

aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 06:26 PM   #396
Supporting Vendor
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,640
Total Cats: 292
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post

Attached Thumbnails
Anyone have any brake questions?-dbdad75465dbbdd6285efa80b2014d35bad8be41359c71f46b29ce68d7c65d05.jpg  
ThePass is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 06:35 PM   #397
SadFab CEO
iTrader: (3)
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: your mom's house phoenix, AZ
Posts: 3,552
Total Cats: 446
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
That really hurt
hi_im_sean is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 09:14 PM   #398
Moderator
iTrader: (10)
 
sixshooter's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 14,072
Total Cats: 1,164
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by aidandj View Post
I read the thread.

I'm picturing the OP in my head.

He looks something like this:




17+ lbs for the rotor alone? El oh el.

Someone should ask him if he is planning to get his shocks revalved because he is gaining so much unsprung weight. And ask him how much slower he expects his 0-60 times will be with all of the additional rotational mass.
Attached Thumbnails
Anyone have any brake questions?-chinese-crested-hairless-dog-large-msg-137969605281.jpg  
sixshooter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 09:18 PM   #399
SadFab Sales Lady
iTrader: (5)
 
aidandj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Location: Beaverton, USA
Posts: 15,858
Total Cats: 1,088
Default

And they are camaro pieces, so I feel like pads and rotors would be even more expensive to replace.
aidandj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2015, 10:25 PM   #400
Senior Member
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SE NM
Posts: 1,226
Total Cats: 32
Default

Guys, you are forgetting that, whenever he has "raced", that he has also never lost a "match"
Dude is certified retard.
Chilicharger665 is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 53 12-07-2016 04:52 PM
1994 Spec Miata Race Car SM/SM2/SSM For Sale Quinn Cars for sale/trade 6 10-23-2016 07:58 AM
15x10 - 15x11 6UL @ 949 Racing emilio700 Wheels and Tires 143 05-21-2016 05:48 PM
Raleigh: Fiberglass headlight scope, 1.6L ECU, AFM, Hardtop latches, more bigmackloud Miata parts for sale/trade 9 11-07-2015 11:58 PM
Leaky Wilwoods mx592 Suspension, Brakes, Drivetrain 1 10-01-2015 12:45 AM


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:16 PM.