miataturbo.net-like debauchery thread (about the ND or something) - Page 59 - Miata Turbo Forum -Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 06-11-2015, 03:57 PM   #1161
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Originally Posted by turbofan View Post


17x9, 41 offset, 16.6 pounds, $259 apiece.

D-Force LTW5 17X9" Racing Wheel ET41 (E36/E46/E90) - Vorshlag LLC

I am unhappy about this. I really wanted 15's to fit. Maybe someone will come out with a brake kit that allows 15's?


***Note: I've just realized that the above post is our version of M.net. I am a horrible person.

So you're going to run 5x114.3 -> 4x100 adapters?
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:04 PM   #1162
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Dammit dammit I knew I was missing something. That post was more M.net than I thought.
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:26 PM   #1163
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*ahem* the new 3 comes standard with 16" steelies, and the optional larger alloy wheels are 18"
Dunno. The missus' 2009 3 came with 17" alloy wheels. Might have been an option package, though the car has cloth seats and nothing fancy. Didn't even come with remote keyless entry from the factory.

I'm not surprised that 18s are optional on the current-gen cars. They'll be standard in a few years when the optional fitment becomes a 19.



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Not really a fair comparison though. Econoboxes with the aforementioned 13" wheels were much, much smaller than today's cars. A current mazda3 is something like 2 feet longer than a 323 hatch from the early 90's, so it's not surprising that the wheels are bigger to match the proportions.
It's a perfectly fair comparison.

1980s vintage F-body cars (Camaro / Firebird) all came with 14" wheels in the base model. They're over a foot longer than the current-gen Mazda 3, and heavier as well. Those wheels were wrapped with 205/75 rubber. Big car, big wheelwell, big sidewall, small wheel.

Hell, the 70's vintage Mercury Grand Marquis was only available with a 185/75 tire on a 14" wheel, and that car was larger than the ship that the 323 came over from Japan on.


Ditto the 80s vintage Volvo 240s (185/70 R14), the 80s vintage Mercedes E-class (175/70 R14), the 80s vintage BMW 7-series (205/70 R14), the 80s vintage Buick Century wagons (185/75 R14), and on and on and on... All of these were very large cars.



Tiny wheels and fat sidewalls used to be the norm. Sidewalls used to be glorified with huge swaths of white rubber laid over them, as though to celebrate their existence.

Over time, styling has changed such that narrow sidewalls are considered to be sportier and more attractive. The gradual increase in average wheel diameter over time has nothing to do with the size of the car itself, and everything to do with the aesthetic goal of making the strip of rubber between the rim and the fender thinner.

(Well, disc brakes and suspension tuning have driven some of that evolution, but they're rarely the limiting factor these days.)
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:30 PM   #1164
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What about spinners?

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The missus'
Metaphorically speaking? Or are congratulations in order?
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Old 06-11-2015, 04:40 PM   #1165
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Right, the earlier cars were 15's and 17's, but the new ones are 16's and 18's.

Anyway, you do make a good point otherwise, regarding the monstrous cars and the little wheels/big tires that carried them.
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Old 06-11-2015, 05:34 PM   #1166
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It's kind of awful in the 17" wheel department for edge cases like the ND Miata and the SC300 that I picked up with a few friends (weird offset requirements). Manufacturers have put all of their flow formed stuff in 15s and 18s, so you can get cheap and super light 15 and 18 inch wheels, but the 17s are ******* boat anchors.

Also, the tire price between 15 and 17 inch tires is rapidly approaching zero. 17s and 18s hurt... a lot.
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Old 06-11-2015, 05:43 PM   #1167
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dunning Kruger Affect View Post
It's kind of awful in the 17" wheel department for edge cases like the ND Miata and the SC300 that I picked up with a few friends (weird offset requirements). Manufacturers have put all of their flow formed stuff in 15s and 18s, so you can get cheap and super light 15 and 18 inch wheels, but the 17s are ******* boat anchors.

Also, the tire price between 15 and 17 inch tires is rapidly approaching zero. 17s and 18s hurt... a lot.
Yeah, I'm kind of wishing I had put 17s on the BRZ, but the 18s just look so much better.

The $$ difference between a 245/40/17 and a 255/35/18 in most of the 200TW sticky street rubber is $70-90 per tire.
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Old 06-11-2015, 05:57 PM   #1168
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Anyway, you do make a good point otherwise, regarding the monstrous cars and the little wheels/big tires that carried them.
It's just the current trend in automotive styling. I mean, think about the last few concept sketches you saw, such as:








The art-school grads who drew those massive, deeply-dished wheels weren't thinking about scrub radius or caliper clearance, they were thinking about the Escalade that the guy they buy their ecstacy from drives.



Rounding the horn back out of Threadjack Bay: the ND comes with 17" wheels and won't accept 15s. Just like the later NBs came with 16" wheels and won't accept 14s, or even certain 15s for that matter.
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:15 PM   #1169
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So you're going to run 5x114.3 -> 4x100 adapters?

That'd be weird. Would you stack 5x120 -> 5x114.3 -> 4x100 for some reason in that case?
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:45 PM   #1170
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The stock wheels are narrow and likely heavy.
I expect that only half of that statement is true. Too much effort on saving weight with this car to make such a rookie oversight as bolting boat anchor wheels on.

Very interesting discoveries so far with the ND. Most of it I like, some of it isn't ideal but we'll find ways to work with/around it.

My closet hope of relevance to very few is that the 17x9 6UL will be able to be Frankenstein'd onto my NA to open tire selection up to things not available in 15"

-Ryan
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Old 06-11-2015, 06:49 PM   #1171
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My closet hope is that the 5x114.3 17x9/10 6UL will come at a time where i can afford it.


Swank Force One needs some new shoes.
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:00 PM   #1172
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I expect that only half of that statement is true. Too much effort on saving weight with this car to make such a rookie oversight as bolting boat anchor wheels on.
While that's true, the factory likely has higher pothole-impact-without-bending requirements than many people here are willing to live with.

--Ian
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:06 PM   #1173
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Agreed, I just expect there to be a couple save-able pounds as opposed to several.

-Ryan
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Old 06-11-2015, 07:12 PM   #1174
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In particular, flow-formed rim technology is becoming mainstream and affordable now (even for OEMs). I would be surprised if the ND wheels don't have flow-formed rims.
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Old 06-12-2015, 04:51 AM   #1175
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Anyone catch the tire size yet?
Or did I miss it somewhere?
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Old 06-12-2015, 07:40 AM   #1176
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You've been living under a rock with ear plugs in. It has been known for MONTHS now.
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Old 06-12-2015, 08:11 AM   #1177
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If mazda engineers didn't think it needed wider tires, why would you want to change them? The wider contact patch and greater rolling resistance would just ruin the great fuel economy the car is expected to get.
I like when you said this you get +5, when i said it first, I get negged. lol.
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Old 06-12-2015, 08:55 AM   #1178
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That'd be weird. Would you stack 5x120 -> 5x114.3 -> 4x100 for some reason in that case?
Touche!

I forget that BMW and Porsche continue to be the only ones (besides the BRZ with it's stupid 5x100) that continue to run a non-standard PCD.
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Old 06-12-2015, 09:51 AM   #1179
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Touche!

I forget that BMW and Porsche continue to be the only ones (besides the BRZ with it's stupid 5x100) that continue to run a non-standard PCD.
And Ford and VW and Audi.
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Old 06-12-2015, 01:46 PM   #1180
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A 205 on an 18" has a larger contact patch than a 205 on a 15" perhaps?

Unless you have the tire inflated to 40 plus PSI, you have a longer contact patch with the bigger diameter wheel/tire. Which probably translates to better acceleration and braking performance. Plus you have lower real-world rolling resistance. Plus it looks cool.

Until these factors no longer apply, it'll be bling for all. Just how it is. But at least there are reasons for it besides trying to give some scale to a the giant smiling whale shark maw that is many Mazda (and others) front fascia's anymore.
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