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Old 01-07-2012, 10:09 PM   #1261
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apt
no insulation
let along security
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:21 PM   #1262
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For your 12ga home defense needs, the most cost effective choice is the Mossberg Maverick 88 18.5" barrel. It is virtually identical to a Mossberg 500 with the exception of a bolt safety.

Most places are currently out of stock due to Christmas sales, but you can get them for $200 shipped from 20 different places online when they are in stock.

The stock is completely interchangeable with any Mossberg 500 product, as are the barrels. The fore-end is not interchangeable however, which isn't that big of a deal.

I own 2 of them. One uses a Hogue pistol grip and is in the bedroom. The other retains the stock stock and is in the garage and has an additional 5-rd sleeve on the buttstock. They are loaded with Winchester PDX1.

They are strictly for home defense. I've put about 100 rds of various ammo through them and will take them out, fire them, clean and lube them, and put them back in their hidey-holes once a year just to maintain a bit of proficiency and ensure they remain in shape.

I am planning to add a tactical light of some sort in the future but haven't done the homework to pick one.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...ducts_id/42605


If you must have the latest and greatest tacticool look, then Mossberg sells their 500 in that flavor.


However, unless you absolutely feel the need to spend more than $200, the simplicity and absolute reliability of a Mav88 makes other arguments kinda silly.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:23 PM   #1263
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thank you!
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:29 PM   #1264
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I'm guessing that you want something that is cheap, easy to use, and most of all will work when you need it too, a shotgun is good for that. However, if you warn an intruder with my chambering a shell, you no longer have the element of surprise. I'd prefer a simi auto shotgun or a pistol. The CZ-82 is a cheap pistol, and the reviews I've read have been positive. Once can be had for ~$250 or less and ammo isn't too expensive. You'll want hollow point ammunition instead of round nose, and you'll want to make sure the ammunition you use for home defense works well in your gun so use it at the range some. Practicing with cheaper ammo is fine so long as you shoot the more quality stuff now and again to make sure it doesn't make your gun malfunction.


^This is an example of hollow point ammo, see the tip of the bullet that is lying down? It won't pass through it's intended target like a round nose bullet might, and that is a good thing for several reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
Really? The last thing I'd want to hear is the muzzle blast.

A 12 GA pump has it's place. For me, it's the last line of defense, if I have to turn my bedroom door into a "funnel of death". If I'm clearing the house, or going outside, I'd much rather have a pistol or AR. But if I'm forced into a situation where I'm holed up in my bedroom, I'll have a 12 GA pointed at the door.
F*ck yeah.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:38 PM   #1265
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You can always tell who's shooting Russian ammo at the range from the sparks that fly out the barrel.
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:43 PM   #1266
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You can always tell who's shooting Russian ammo at the range from the sparks that fly out the barrel.
Is that a bad thing?

(srs question)
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Old 01-07-2012, 10:57 PM   #1267
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead_318 View Post
I'm guessing that you want something that is cheap, easy to use, and most of all will work when you need it too, a shotgun is good for that. However, if you warn an intruder with my chambering a shell, you no longer have the element of surprise. I'd prefer a simi auto shotgun or a pistol. The CZ-82 is a cheap pistol, and the reviews I've read have been positive. Once can be had for ~$250 or less and ammo isn't too expensive. You'll want hollow point ammunition instead of round nose, and you'll want to make sure the ammunition you use for home defense works well in your gun so use it at the range some. Practicing with cheaper ammo is fine so long as you shoot the more quality stuff now and again to make sure it doesn't make your gun malfunction.

^This is an example of hollow point ammo, see the tip of the bullet that is lying down? It won't pass through it's intended target like a round nose bullet might, and that is a good thing for several reasons.

F*ck yeah.
The principle of your advice is good, but the gun is a terrible choice. Buying a used SA/DA Czech police pistol in 9x18mak for your primary home defense needs is retarded.

That caliber, while nearly identicaly to .380acp is twice as expensive and not readily found. And while you may find "hollow point" stuff somewhere, it won't be a modern defensive round engineered with current technologies and won't hold a candle to what is currently available in .380. And yes, those pistols also came chambered in .380acp and I think JGSales usually has them in stock. However, an SA/DA pistol is a different animal than the majority of modern .380 pistols that are mostly DAO... lots of homework and pro's/con's before you decide to go with what amounts to a traditional exposed hammer manual safety full function .380.

If you want .380 SA/DA, and you like the look of that CZ, then get a Bersa Thunder. They're $250 any day of the week and although fairly large for a .380, they are full function SA/DA with a manual safety, and look almost exactly like the CZ above. The Bersa's have an outstanding reputation and are damned sexy... but again, a Keltec P3AT is 2/3 the size.


However, for strictly home defense, using a .380 is retarded. If it's going to be kept in your nightstand and be a "tool" for you, then a full-frame modern semi-automatic with a large magazine and attachment rail is almost the only way to go. The types of guns the average person would consider for this job start well over $250... however.

May I politely suggest a used Glock LE trade-in as a primary home defense pistol that is a TOOL to serve a purpose for somebody who isn't into "guns" but may have decided they need one. They don't want to spend a lot of money and they don't want guns to become a hobby. They also won't practice much so the gun has to be dead simple and dead reliable. I have seen Glock 22 .40 for $360 many places and they'll come with a couple 15rd magazines.

This is far from the only choice... lots of homework to be done when buying a gun.
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:09 PM   #1268
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How 'bout a CZ-75? Sig Sauer 250?

Is there a problem with the CZ-82 it's self? I don't really mean to question your experience b/c I'm by all means a gun noob, but unless I'm missing something the price of 9x18 and .380 seem to be similar, and I've seen plenty of places online where you can get Makarov ammo:
http://www.jgsales.com/ammo-for-handguns-c-25_29.html
http://www.jgsales.com/9x18-makarov-...es.-p-495.html
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Old 01-07-2012, 11:30 PM   #1269
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gearhead_318 View Post
How 'bout a CZ-75? Sig Sauer 250?

Is there a problem with the CZ-82 it's self? I don't really mean to question your experience b/c I'm by all means a gun noob, but unless I'm missing something the price of 9x18 and .380 seem to be similar, and I've seen plenty of places online where you can get Makarov ammo:
http://www.jgsales.com/ammo-for-handguns-c-25_29.html
http://www.jgsales.com/9x18-makarov-...es.-p-495.html
Walk into your local Walmart/Dicks/Academy/Big5/etc... and ask for 9x18 Hornady Critical Defense, or Federal Guard-Dog, or Winchester PDX, or Buffalo Bore, or Double-Tap, or anything... they will have nothing at all, ever. No store carries 9x18 except maybe Cabelas or Bass-Pro if you have one around... and even then, they will probably only have 1, but I doubt it. And no current manufacturer of modern self-defense ammo makes anything in 9x18. Your LGS may have a bit of it if the owner is a complete gun-nut and there is a local market or he works a lot of gunshows and has that stuff in the store because he also sells it on the road.

Yes, Midway, CDT, Buds, Able will all be able to sell you 9x18 through the internet... in "FMJ", and "hollow-point". And it will be more than .380, which is already way more than 9mm.

And like I mentioned, I think JG's is the only place that sells those CZ's. What happens if you have a problem with a used mil-surp pistol that you rely on to defend your family? Where do you send it? What do you do while it's away being fixed?

But to answer your question... no, I don't know that anything is wrong with those. In fact, I believe I've read nothing but awesomeness about them. On the other hand, there is ZERO argument you can make that 9x18 or .380 is a good home defense choice.
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Old 01-08-2012, 02:58 AM   #1270
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My $0.02 is if you're wanting a shotgun for home defense I'd recommend an autoloader such as a Remington 1100 TAC-4. They're expensive but have their advantages. 22" barrel, holds an additional 4 shells, and you don't have to worry about pumping it. The pump sound of a shotgun is way overrated for "home defense" reasons and I think rather silly. Why do I recommend an autoloader? Put yourself in a very stressful and panicked situation and try to pump a shotgun. Some people can do it but I'd be willing to bet most people would forget to pump it or not get the bolt back into battery.

I'm used to shooting autoloaders or over/under doubles when hunting / clay shooting. Used them for years, then I picked up a friends cheap walmart 870 and had a bitch of a time getting that thing back into battery. Once I got used to slamming it home for the next chambered round I had no problem, but the issue is the only pump shotgun I'm used to firing is a pretty high quality expensive unit that doesn't require you to slam the farking thing on the ground to cycle it. Thing is I'm not a competition shooter, professional marksman, or some expert in anything that goes bang. What I am is the average shooter that might find myself in the same emergency of needing a firearm to discharge but due to lack of training or carelessness, forget to slam the action shut. Your mileage may vary.



Good Non-Colt AR brands? I'm a fan of DPMS and I'm about to see if a company I've never heard of before makes good upper receivers or not.
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Old 01-08-2012, 03:38 AM   #1271
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Benelli M4 is a nice choice too, but there real pricey.
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Old 01-08-2012, 12:56 PM   #1272
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I was recently told by an "ex marine corps. special forces black ops yeah, I was there back when it was real" obese dude at my local gun store that 10mm is a poor choice because you have to be responsible for the 14 or so grandmothers that will lose their respective lives when the bullet travels through your wall, through an elementary school all before making a quick stop at a nursing home.

"I would NEVER carry a 10 milla meetar. Have you SEEN the velocities of those rounds? Talk about unsafe!" -350 lb. dumbass wearing bloused boots

10mm aka GOD TIER boolits:

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Old 01-08-2012, 01:24 PM   #1273
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Quote:
Originally Posted by samnavy View Post
For hunting what? You can get just about any caliber you want currently from a dozen manufacturers in a lightweight bolt-action. Guys who need a lightweight rifle for long treks and mountain hunting won't carry an AR. For 90% of deer hunters who ride their quads or walk across the parking lot to their stand aren't going to shoot a .223 semi-auto 30-rd magazine they paid $1000 for when a decent Savage .30-06 is .$300. I'm just saying... guys who would like an AR for more than liquefying rabbits don't see things the way I do.

I'm all for the discussion about it though.
Yeah, but the AR style is a much more fun all around gun. I hear what you are saying. My FNAR .308 cost $1k, my newly acquired .300WM bolt $300. Semi autos are more fun, and my FNAR is plenty accurate enough at 600 yds for hunting. Lot's of calibers are now available for the AR style.

I wouldn't deer hunt with a .223, but I bet the right round selection would make it just fine. Hell, isn't that the round that was used to kill people?
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Old 01-08-2012, 01:46 PM   #1274
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Originally Posted by djp0623 View Post

I wouldn't deer hunt with a .223, but I bet the right round selection would make it just fine. Hell, isn't that the round that was used to kill people?
Yes, but a non-expanding round used by the military is more effective when wounding the enemy, causing him to care for the casualties(if he has the inkling to do so)
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Old 01-08-2012, 06:13 PM   #1275
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillyb View Post
recommendations for pump action shotgun for "home protection?"
been recommended 12ga by a local dude.
both myself and my gf would know how to fire it.
suggestions please
Quote:
Originally Posted by mgeoffriau View Post
If I'm clearing the house, or going outside, I'd much rather have a pistol or AR. But if I'm forced into a situation where I'm holed up in my bedroom, I'll have a 12 GA pointed at the door.
Quote:
Originally Posted by elesjuan View Post
My $0.02 is if you're wanting a shotgun for home defense I'd recommend an autoloader such as a Remington 1100 TAC-4
I am with elesjuan. It's outside of the box a little, but I think taking his realism one step further: a 20-gauge semi-auto. For a household which includes a man and a woman only (i.e. no children) that are likely to only practice with the firearm infrequently, I think that makes a nice compromise.
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Old 01-08-2012, 08:07 PM   #1276
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On the topic of cheap shotties:

NEF/H&R Pardner Protector Pump. It's a damn near identical copy of a Rem 870 made by Norinco (Chinese manufacturer known for high quality, their 1911 frames are sought after) and distributed by the NEF/H&R/Marlin sub-brand of Remington. Stocks and fore-ends are compatible with 870's, barrels and mag extensions are not. Feels way more solid than the Mav 88, better even than the 870 Express.

Best of all, you can usually get it for around $170 at Academy and Dick's.

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Old 01-08-2012, 08:53 PM   #1277
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Thats a damn attractive price, IDK if I could bring myself to buy a Chinese gun though.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:34 PM   #1278
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FWIW My co-worker bought a Pardner NEF Pump action that he pimped out. 20" bbl, magazine ext, pistola grip, etc. He really likes it, and a quick google shows mixed results.

I've been tempted to buy a Savage Stevens Security 350 pump with ghost ring sights. Cabela's has them on sale for $230 ish every once in a while, and for 300 I've seen them online with an additional 28" barrel.

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/p...GA+18.5%22+GRS

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Old 01-09-2012, 02:26 AM   #1279
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thank you everyone...
going to a spot tomorrow to look at some shotguns.
there was a robbery in my house today...house is broken up into 4 apartments.
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Old 01-09-2012, 02:52 AM   #1280
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That's no Bueno bro.

Move? :(


Don't overlook a way to secure your firearms. Last thing you wanna do is put more guns out on the street, especially on your dime.


Here's my new gun safe:



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