Anybody hard cranking w MS3 ?
#21
2 Props,3 Dildos,& 1 Cat
iTrader: (8)
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Fake Virginia
Posts: 19,338
Total Cats: 573
OK so I would start by looking at your cranking pulse table and remove some fuel there.
It's had to say exactly how much without trying the car myself. Just keep in mind that too much fuel and too little fuel can both lead to flooding--too much is obvious, but too little wont burn and just makes a wet mess too.
I would start by aiming for 100% at normal operating temp and then dial it up or down from there. My last map was around 80% at 140F. Remember it's % of "Required Fuel".
And Required Fuel is the value calculated to roughly equate to 100% VE at 100kPa. And cranking happens around 100kPa. So it makes sense that 100% cranking pulse is going to get you about 14.7 AFR (ignoring the effects of RPM and airflow parameters of the engine). In reality, VE is pretty crappy at low RPM so you can tune for less than 100% and still be richer than stoich. If you can truly measure (i.e. your A/F gauge doesn't shut off) during cranking, you can try for 11.5ish AFR and see how it works. I don't remember the ideal value for starting but it's usually a bit richer because of cold engine parts and condensation.
It's had to say exactly how much without trying the car myself. Just keep in mind that too much fuel and too little fuel can both lead to flooding--too much is obvious, but too little wont burn and just makes a wet mess too.
I would start by aiming for 100% at normal operating temp and then dial it up or down from there. My last map was around 80% at 140F. Remember it's % of "Required Fuel".
And Required Fuel is the value calculated to roughly equate to 100% VE at 100kPa. And cranking happens around 100kPa. So it makes sense that 100% cranking pulse is going to get you about 14.7 AFR (ignoring the effects of RPM and airflow parameters of the engine). In reality, VE is pretty crappy at low RPM so you can tune for less than 100% and still be richer than stoich. If you can truly measure (i.e. your A/F gauge doesn't shut off) during cranking, you can try for 11.5ish AFR and see how it works. I don't remember the ideal value for starting but it's usually a bit richer because of cold engine parts and condensation.
#22
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 810
Total Cats: -6
OK so I would start by looking at your cranking pulse table and remove some fuel there.
It's had to say exactly how much without trying the car myself. Just keep in mind that too much fuel and too little fuel can both lead to flooding--too much is obvious, but too little wont burn and just makes a wet mess too.
I would start by aiming for 100% at normal operating temp and then dial it up or down from there. My last map was around 80% at 140F. Remember it's % of "Required Fuel".
And Required Fuel is the value calculated to roughly equate to 100% VE at 100kPa. And cranking happens around 100kPa. So it makes sense that 100% cranking pulse is going to get you about 14.7 AFR (ignoring the effects of RPM and airflow parameters of the engine). In reality, VE is pretty crappy at low RPM so you can tune for less than 100% and still be richer than stoich. If you can truly measure (i.e. your A/F gauge doesn't shut off) during cranking, you can try for 11.5ish AFR and see how it works. I don't remember the ideal value for starting but it's usually a bit richer because of cold engine parts and condensation.
It's had to say exactly how much without trying the car myself. Just keep in mind that too much fuel and too little fuel can both lead to flooding--too much is obvious, but too little wont burn and just makes a wet mess too.
I would start by aiming for 100% at normal operating temp and then dial it up or down from there. My last map was around 80% at 140F. Remember it's % of "Required Fuel".
And Required Fuel is the value calculated to roughly equate to 100% VE at 100kPa. And cranking happens around 100kPa. So it makes sense that 100% cranking pulse is going to get you about 14.7 AFR (ignoring the effects of RPM and airflow parameters of the engine). In reality, VE is pretty crappy at low RPM so you can tune for less than 100% and still be richer than stoich. If you can truly measure (i.e. your A/F gauge doesn't shut off) during cranking, you can try for 11.5ish AFR and see how it works. I don't remember the ideal value for starting but it's usually a bit richer because of cold engine parts and condensation.
Thank you very much !
Don't know if I mentioned that I also get an occasional back fire from the exhaust as it starts …
#23
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 810
Total Cats: -6
This isn't going to be easy but at least I got trusted lap top back...
I did a "compare" between the tune that came with the MS3 courtesy of Brain and what my friend ended up with
These are the cranking/duty cycle numbers compare.
Coolant Duty (Base)
29 49
78 45.9
131.2 42.7
192.0 38
Coolant Duty (Current Tune )
0 60.0
60 40
120 36.1
200 30.2
Right now since I'm not the best at this stuff I'm tempted to try Brain's settings to see if the issue goes away without having to reinvent the wheel.
Changing starters sucks
I did a "compare" between the tune that came with the MS3 courtesy of Brain and what my friend ended up with
These are the cranking/duty cycle numbers compare.
Coolant Duty (Base)
29 49
78 45.9
131.2 42.7
192.0 38
Coolant Duty (Current Tune )
0 60.0
60 40
120 36.1
200 30.2
Right now since I'm not the best at this stuff I'm tempted to try Brain's settings to see if the issue goes away without having to reinvent the wheel.
Changing starters sucks
#29
Boost Czar
iTrader: (62)
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Chantilly, VA
Posts: 79,493
Total Cats: 4,080
Why is fixed timing active?
it shouldn't be, unless you wanna melt stuff. Which is exactly what I told you to check in your last thread about the heat from the trubo...
if it's set, then how are you seeing 25° during cranking?
you know what could help?
and i know this is crazy...
...to ask this in a megasquirt thread...
...where someone needs help with configuration and tuning...
...but why not post the datalog of cranking and your MSQ so we can actually review it?
I know, I know. that's a lot to ask for.
it shouldn't be, unless you wanna melt stuff. Which is exactly what I told you to check in your last thread about the heat from the trubo...
if it's set, then how are you seeing 25° during cranking?
you know what could help?
and i know this is crazy...
...to ask this in a megasquirt thread...
...where someone needs help with configuration and tuning...
...but why not post the datalog of cranking and your MSQ so we can actually review it?
I know, I know. that's a lot to ask for.
#30
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 810
Total Cats: -6
My bad.
I thought you meant the initial timing - the one you set with the timing light so that the timing on the tables is actually what it reads.
I honestly don't know where the setting you mention is ..
The MSQ and cranking logs are at the start of the this thread
I thought you meant the initial timing - the one you set with the timing light so that the timing on the tables is actually what it reads.
I honestly don't know where the setting you mention is ..
The MSQ and cranking logs are at the start of the this thread
#31
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 810
Total Cats: -6
Ok here is a log where the starter actually flaked out.
It cranked a few times and basically stalled and stopped cranking the motor over while I was still holding the key in the crank position.
I'm not sure how this affected the log.
The battery is new
The ignition switch was rebuilt etc.
The current MSQ is attached.
Please let me know & Thanks a million for your help
It cranked a few times and basically stalled and stopped cranking the motor over while I was still holding the key in the crank position.
I'm not sure how this affected the log.
The battery is new
The ignition switch was rebuilt etc.
The current MSQ is attached.
Please let me know & Thanks a million for your help
#32
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 810
Total Cats: -6
Ok, these two issues may or may not be related. I just need the stupid car to drive my kid to school so I'd really appreciate some advice from you guys.
Hard cranking aside, the car stalls and refuses to start during the warm up cycle. So if I try to warm up for a couple of minutes and then drive I get stuck.
I pooped a couple of logs. Seems to me that just before the motor stalls the timing shoots up for some reason ,something causing a dip in MAT and PW. Bad wiring or a bad sensor on MAT? Causing PW to drop during a critical warm-up period?
I attached the log plus a screen shot.
I've no clue if this is a setting or what type of issue.
Thanks
Hard cranking aside, the car stalls and refuses to start during the warm up cycle. So if I try to warm up for a couple of minutes and then drive I get stuck.
I pooped a couple of logs. Seems to me that just before the motor stalls the timing shoots up for some reason ,something causing a dip in MAT and PW. Bad wiring or a bad sensor on MAT? Causing PW to drop during a critical warm-up period?
I attached the log plus a screen shot.
I've no clue if this is a setting or what type of issue.
Thanks
Last edited by poobs; 01-13-2014 at 12:46 PM.
#33
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 810
Total Cats: -6
This might be a bit premature but then again so was I LOL
I'm posting so it "might" help someone with similar issues.
Cold start up this cold morning was better. Of course I only got two tries before I’d say it is no longer a “cold “ start.
What I did-
Watched where the spark map pointer is when cranking and reduced those cells.
Took off 5 points from the cranking pulse numbers.
Increased the cranking RPM by 100
Still have to load the new firm ware…
Hoping for the best
I'm posting so it "might" help someone with similar issues.
Cold start up this cold morning was better. Of course I only got two tries before I’d say it is no longer a “cold “ start.
What I did-
Watched where the spark map pointer is when cranking and reduced those cells.
Took off 5 points from the cranking pulse numbers.
Increased the cranking RPM by 100
Still have to load the new firm ware…
Hoping for the best
#37
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (1)
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Florida
Posts: 810
Total Cats: -6
See if this helps https://www.miataturbo.net/megasquir...startup-77785/
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Zaphod
MEGAsquirt
47
10-26-2018 11:00 PM
Frank_and_Beans
Supercharger Discussion
13
09-12-2016 08:17 PM