Help me pick new track car
#121
Do the AP1's snap oversteer badly bone stock?
Is the definition of snap oversteer, sudden rapid lift-throttle oversteer?
Worse when lowered?
Worse in higher speed corners?
Worse with stickier tires?
Any thoughts why Honda made em that way?
Does the toe link fix make em slower or otherwise pull lower G's in the skidpad?
Toe link fix have any downsides?
Did Honda change the toe/camber curves or otherwise change the toe links in the AP2 to reduce the snap oversteer?
Is the definition of snap oversteer, sudden rapid lift-throttle oversteer?
Worse when lowered?
Worse in higher speed corners?
Worse with stickier tires?
Any thoughts why Honda made em that way?
Does the toe link fix make em slower or otherwise pull lower G's in the skidpad?
Toe link fix have any downsides?
Did Honda change the toe/camber curves or otherwise change the toe links in the AP2 to reduce the snap oversteer?
I do know:
AP1 snap oversteer more than AP2.
they are snap oversteer whether lowered or not. whether on r-comp or not.
BSK helps a lot on AP1.
basically S2000, unlike a Miata is very difficult to maintain a slip angle through a turn. you either are hooked up, or rear end will come around.
this is from last weekend's S2K Challenge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojHhC...layer_embedded
before you said he is a bad driver. he is 6 seconds under SM record in a stock powered S.
another one on the same day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vEvT...layer_embedded
this is results from last week, click on Oct 23rd, day of S2000 Challenge. note SM track record is ~2:05
http://www.speedventures.com/results/Default.aspx
last 4 track/race days, I was driving my Miata, I haven't spun once. 2 weeks ago, at TrackHQ vs. Magazine Pro Challenge, took my S2000 out. I managed to spun 4 times in 1 hour
no, I wasn't the only one. 6 of us were using my AP2 S (stock, just camber kit, pad and RE01R) for practice, all 6 had some offs
eagerly awaits for Jacob's report at next track day.
Last edited by bellwilliam; 10-27-2010 at 04:46 PM.
#125
don't worry, it isn't bad with AP2. you will get used to it.
on AP2 wheels, you can have 235/40 front, 255/40 rear.
real men don't need no stinking BSK !!
oh, I have an AP2, it isn't as bad as AP1.
I had a cheapo fiberglass trunk with GTC200 mounted on it (4 bolts and 2 minutes later, it is swapped back to stock). Wing helps a ton with mid / high speed corners. at low speed, I like it loose anyway. helps with rotation.
btw, Emilio of 949racing has BSK on his AP1.
S2000 shocks are pretty good. it comes with reservoir !!
#132
pretty sure there is no downside to BSK. but I still think Jacob should drive as is w/o BSK first. if he spins it 3+ times a day, then may be BSK
all I can say is stock S2000 shocks are pretty good. I don't see reason to upgrade on a low mileage street car, unless Jacob is going all out. no doubt some aftermarket can do better, just saying stock S2000 shocks are good for a stock car. it handles curbs very well. Nam's S2000, still stock suspension, yet did 2:01.0 at BW13 on RS3 tires.
#134
With the money I saved on buying an MSM, a S2K would have a hell of a time trying to keep up in track conditions I believe.
Ohlins DFV
Intake
Exhaust
Larger Intercooler
EBC rotors & Hawk HPS Pads
15x7 wheels
Still waiting to get some Azenis on them but rolling w/ T1Rs... lol
Still have over a grand to spend...
Ohlins DFV
Intake
Exhaust
Larger Intercooler
EBC rotors & Hawk HPS Pads
15x7 wheels
Still waiting to get some Azenis on them but rolling w/ T1Rs... lol
Still have over a grand to spend...
#135
With the money I saved on buying an MSM, a S2K would have a hell of a time trying to keep up in track conditions I believe.
Ohlins DFV
Intake
Exhaust
Larger Intercooler
EBC rotors & Hawk HPS Pads
15x7 wheels
Still waiting to get some Azenis on them but rolling w/ T1Rs... lol
Still have over a grand to spend...
Ohlins DFV
Intake
Exhaust
Larger Intercooler
EBC rotors & Hawk HPS Pads
15x7 wheels
Still waiting to get some Azenis on them but rolling w/ T1Rs... lol
Still have over a grand to spend...
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#137
On stock wheels and ties you have 195/195mm for the Miata and 215/245 for the S. On the widest wheels that fit under stock fenders you have 225/225 mm for the Miata and 255/275 for the S2000. The S2 has a .cd in the mid to high .30's even with big tires, the Miata around .48 once you put 225's on. Miata has a bunch of aero lift, the S2000 has very little.
Then you have the issue of peak power. Even though the lbs/hp can be matched, 197whp with a .38-.42 cd and only a bit more frontal area will have a bunch more top end speed than a 160whp car with .48 cd.
The only real downside of the S2000 for track use is the relative cost of the basic car as a starting point/replacement cost if you wad it up: $9k~14K for a good S2000, vs. 1.5-4K for a good NA or NB.
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#138
awww, you'll be okay. just so you know, the op already had a low mileage msm with ms coilovers, a begi upgrade kit with a gt2871 @10psi., larger intercooler, carbotechs, eibach sways, and 15x8 6ul's with ra-1's. so he's been there done that. there's a reason he had it widdled down to those few cars in particular.
#139
I think the thread has shifted from "Help me pick a track car" to "Help me not spin my new S2K into a wall", but out of curiosity...
...how do M3's (E36) and M Coupe's compare? Seems like I recall the M Couple being 200-300 lbs heavier than an S2K, but has similar power with a more usable powerband.
...how do M3's (E36) and M Coupe's compare? Seems like I recall the M Couple being 200-300 lbs heavier than an S2K, but has similar power with a more usable powerband.