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Old 10-29-2010, 05:06 PM   #141
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Seriously, though, how has this thread title not been changed to "Help me not wad up my S2K" yet?
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Old 10-29-2010, 05:06 PM   #142
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Word, Ty for taking the time to explain that Emilio.
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Old 10-29-2010, 08:52 PM   #143
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...how do M3's (E36) and M Coupe's compare? Seems like I recall the M Couple being 200-300 lbs heavier than an S2K, but has similar power with a more usable powerband.
There are 2 fast drivers locally driving z4 m coupe. I will say it is roughly 1 second faster than s2000. Not scientific, more of whqt I observe. Not sure about e36 M3; can't think of a fast driver on m3, so no data for it.
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:49 PM   #144
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The Miata just has better inherent balance and is easier to drive at the limit.
What if you ran 245/245 f/r tires on the S2000 and put a bigger front sway to balance it, and a BSK, would that improve the balance and user-friendliness?
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Old 10-29-2010, 09:51 PM   #145
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I think the thread has shifted from "Help me pick a track car" to "Help me not spin my new S2K into a wall"
Lol. Well we picked the car for him, now we need to help him stay alive.
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Old 10-29-2010, 11:16 PM   #146
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Lol. Well we picked the car for him, now we need to help him stay alive.
no problem. bubble wrap. 50 layers of bubble wrap.
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Old 10-29-2010, 11:52 PM   #147
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no problem. bubble wrap. 50 layers of bubble wrap.
I told the charge nurse the same thing when she asked what I thought we should do to a patient (Warfarin OD)!!!!!!!
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Old 10-30-2010, 01:00 AM   #148
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I think car has been picked. S2000 wins by the shear amount of reference it got in this thread.
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Old 10-30-2010, 01:49 AM   #149
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Lol, I take it you didn't see the pics of the actual car he bought. Or the one of the $$$ on the table with the gun where he talks about how we are about to go pick it up on Wed.

Anyway, speaking of e36's, there's quite a few running with NASA here in Texas. One in particular is really fast. He bought it cheap as it was already a track car. He stripped it down, painted and freshened everything up. Dyno'd 250whp and has laid down some low 1:50 laptimes at tws which is incredibly fast. There's aljso an e46 with bolt-ons, ast's, and Hoosiers. Setting ttb and even tta lap records at tracks he's familiar with. Usually 5sec. Under. Spec Miata records, although at tws he was still 5-6 seconds slower than the Guy with the e36!
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Old 10-30-2010, 03:05 AM   #150
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
What if you ran 245/245 f/r tires on the S2000 and put a bigger front sway to balance it, and a BSK, would that improve the balance and user-friendliness?
A bunch of us tried square set ups on the S2000. Fast but requires a bunch of rear wing or wider rear wheels. Just adding a **** ton of front bar (Gendron, et,al) works for autocross but messes up the balance for track use. Like any other car, too much spring rate in either the main springs or sway bars makes a car that feels quick but hates bumps. The monster FSB just give you a turn in push that you deal with to get keep the tail in line mid corner. The S2000's issues are geometry related, not roll stiffness, roll couple bias etc. You can't tune it out without moving pick up points and fundamentally changing the car.

I've drive a bunch of S2000's from full pillow ball suspension, double adjustables etc, to stocn stock and every step in between. The S just doesn't have the inherent sweet spot balance between agility and stability. Mazda just did a better job. Honda has in its favor, room and scrub radius geometry that allows a 10-11" wide, 25" tall tire to work and oh yeah, that sweet marvel of a power plant.

I have never driven any S2000 that has as good intrinsic balance as a stone stock 90 Miata. That includes my own fairly well dialed stock class winning (S2K Challenge) AP1 that about a dozen people have claimed as the best handling S2000 they have ever driven. It has my 6ULR 9/10 combo with 255/275, BSK, Tein Springs, Neuspeed 32mm FSB and SPC camber adjusters. Oh and like -3.8 camber all around which is actually a bit too much. The Rental just flat blows it away in balance/driveability and just about matches it in sheer grip with much smaller tires. The other car I've driven that has very close to the same sweet spot balance is a slightly tweaked C5 Z06. Teh C6 is also a great car but it's extra power requires just silly huge Hoosiers to get the balance that a C5 will get on stock size NT01's.
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Old 10-30-2010, 04:59 AM   #151
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Originally Posted by emilio700 View Post
A bunch of us tried square set ups on the S2000. Fast but requires a bunch of rear wing or wider rear wheels. Just adding a **** ton of front bar (Gendron, et,al) works for autocross but messes up the balance for track use. Like any other car, too much spring rate in either the main springs or sway bars makes a car that feels quick but hates bumps. The monster FSB just give you a turn in push that you deal with to get keep the tail in line mid corner. The S2000's issues are geometry related, not roll stiffness, roll couple bias etc. You can't tune it out without moving pick up points and fundamentally changing the car.

I've drive a bunch of S2000's from full pillow ball suspension, double adjustables etc, to stocn stock and every step in between. The S just doesn't have the inherent sweet spot balance between agility and stability. Mazda just did a better job. Honda has in its favor, room and scrub radius geometry that allows a 10-11" wide, 25" tall tire to work and oh yeah, that sweet marvel of a power plant.

I have never driven any S2000 that has as good intrinsic balance as a stone stock 90 Miata. That includes my own fairly well dialed stock class winning (S2K Challenge) AP1 that about a dozen people have claimed as the best handling S2000 they have ever driven. It has my 6ULR 9/10 combo with 255/275, BSK, Tein Springs, Neuspeed 32mm FSB and SPC camber adjusters. Oh and like -3.8 camber all around which is actually a bit too much. The Rental just flat blows it away in balance/driveability and just about matches it in sheer grip with much smaller tires. The other car I've driven that has very close to the same sweet spot balance is a slightly tweaked C5 Z06. Teh C6 is also a great car but it's extra power requires just silly huge Hoosiers to get the balance that a C5 will get on stock size NT01's.
I have one word for you. NASATWSAPRILLAPRECORDSFALLEMILIOS2000


Yes, I'm up retarded late. My dad found a 93 LE he just had to have tonight 3hrs away...lol Why can't all the sweet cars be in Corpus.
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Old 10-30-2010, 05:40 AM   #152
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With the money I saved on buying an MSM, a S2K would have a hell of a time trying to keep up in track conditions I believe.

Ohlins DFV
Intake
Exhaust
Larger Intercooler
EBC rotors & Hawk HPS Pads
15x7 wheels

Still waiting to get some Azenis on them but rolling w/ T1Rs... lol

Still have over a grand to spend...
Bob, PM me your number lets chat. It will make you faster.



Edit: I'm not endorsing those tires, they were free and good for daily street. Car had RA1's on later in the day.
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Old 10-30-2010, 10:42 AM   #153
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Lol, I take it you didn't see the pics of the actual car he bought. Or the one of the $$$ on the table with the gun where he talks about how we are about to go pick it up on Wed.

Anyway, speaking of e36's, there's quite a few running with NASA here in Texas. One in particular is really fast. He bought it cheap as it was already a track car. He stripped it down, painted and freshened everything up. Dyno'd 250whp and has laid down some low 1:50 laptimes at tws which is incredibly fast. There's aljso an e46 with bolt-ons, ast's, and Hoosiers. Setting ttb and even tta lap records at tracks he's familiar with. Usually 5sec. Under. Spec Miata records, although at tws he was still 5-6 seconds slower than the Guy with the e36!
Very cool. A 1:50 at TWS in a car is impressive. The E36 is a great car, no doubt.
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Old 10-30-2010, 04:47 PM   #154
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Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
Bob, PM me your number lets chat. It will make you faster.



Edit: I'm not endorsing those tires, they were free and good for daily street. Car had RA1's on later in the day.
Haha ok, thanks..
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Old 11-01-2010, 01:22 AM   #155
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Talked to Jake a bit Friday. He asked me how to make an S2000 fast. In a nutshell, I said: "It's already fast, add safety equipment".

Last edited by emilio700; 11-01-2010 at 01:22 AM. Reason: f7
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Old 11-01-2010, 09:41 AM   #156
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AThe S just doesn't have the inherent sweet spot balance between agility and stability. Mazda just did a better job.
Interesting stuff.
Where does the NA vs NB geometry fit into this?

Also, many years ago, several people on the internetz said "miata's short wheelbase makes it less stable and slower in high speed corners than other cars", like an E30 or E36 BMW.
Is this bunk or does it take a wing to make this go out the window?
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Old 11-01-2010, 11:06 AM   #157
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Talked to Jake a bit Friday. He asked me how to make an S2000 fast. In a nutshell, I said: "It's already fast, add safety equipment".
And I invited you to come run my S2000 in April at TWS. I really need a good baseline to run against. Plus you can either break some records at TWS CCW for a stockish S2000, 2:00 I believe. You can do that and a TTB record...lol TWS is our BW13, come play.

Honestly, I do want to go faster but not how Emilio made it sound. I want that sweet setup where you almost telepathically drive around corners. No understeer, nuetral, right foot steering optional if needed, will hold a slip angle with ease. I know how to do that in a miata, S2000 info is a little harder to come by.
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:20 PM   #158
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Interesting stuff.
Where does the NA vs NB geometry fit into this?

Also, many years ago, several people on the internetz said "miata's short wheelbase makes it less stable and slower in high speed corners than other cars", like an E30 or E36 BMW.
Is this bunk or does it take a wing to make this go out the window?
I prefer the NB. To the best of my knowledge the NB has a slightly higher front roll center and a bit more camber gain at low ride heights than the NA. Part of the improved feel is reduced flex though. The NB's tend to be stiffer chassis.

I have no complaints with the high speed handling of the Miata that aren't just aero lift induced. Our Rental at BW Riverside (100mph) or WSIR T9 (100mph) was nicely balanced and quite driveable. More rear than front lift I think with the OEM 99 Sport front air dam and rear lip. Adding maybe a 1.5" 45 trunk lid spoiler would have made it a skosh better I think.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jacob300zx View Post
And I invited you to come run my S2000 in April at TWS. I really need a good baseline to run against. Plus you can either break some records at TWS CCW for a stockish S2000, 2:00 I believe. You can do that and a TTB record...lol TWS is our BW13, come play.

Honestly, I do want to go faster but not how Emilio made it sound. I want that sweet setup where you almost telepathically drive around corners. No understeer, nuetral, right foot steering optional if needed, will hold a slip angle with ease. I know how to do that in a miata, S2000 info is a little harder to come by.
Anything you do to improve the balance and driveability of the S2000 will make it faster and it's already silly fast. Kind of a catch 22. You just want a fun track car but in order to make the S2000 less terrifying to drive at the limit, you partially fix inherent imbalances and thus make it faster. A stone stock S2000 will go through Riverside at BRP at about 97-101mph, wiggling and twitching the whole time. Most production cars struggle to get through at 80-85mph.

Just don't want to see you make the same mistake others have made in making their S2000's faster and not spending a dime on safety stuff. That said, it's a great car, won't break and will be a blast to drive. Enjoy!
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Old 11-01-2010, 05:52 PM   #159
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The Miata just has better inherent balance and is easier to drive at the limit.
Because I'm a girly man I think I'll stick with the miata!

I almost sold the miata to buy an S2000 years ago, then I installed the door bars - reduced the cause of my number 1 complaint about the car!

Thanks Emilio for sharing your knowledge.
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Old 11-01-2010, 06:29 PM   #160
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Emilio awesome post. i'm gonna grab myself a ride in a s2000 next chance i get - in the rain - just to see what its like. i wonder if the dead body in the trunk mod would help

driving the miata in the rain is fun. judging by how much some other folks slow down, it doesn't look like they were enjoying themselves nearly as much.
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