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Old 10-27-2010, 04:50 PM   #121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
Do the AP1's snap oversteer badly bone stock?
Is the definition of snap oversteer, sudden rapid lift-throttle oversteer?
Worse when lowered?
Worse in higher speed corners?
Worse with stickier tires?

Any thoughts why Honda made em that way?
Does the toe link fix make em slower or otherwise pull lower G's in the skidpad?
Toe link fix have any downsides?

Did Honda change the toe/camber curves or otherwise change the toe links in the AP2 to reduce the snap oversteer?
I am not technical enough to tell you technical aspect of it.
I do know:
AP1 snap oversteer more than AP2.
they are snap oversteer whether lowered or not. whether on r-comp or not.
BSK helps a lot on AP1.
basically S2000, unlike a Miata is very difficult to maintain a slip angle through a turn. you either are hooked up, or rear end will come around.

this is from last weekend's S2K Challenge:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ojHhC...layer_embedded

before you said he is a bad driver. he is 6 seconds under SM record in a stock powered S.

another one on the same day.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0vEvT...layer_embedded

this is results from last week, click on Oct 23rd, day of S2000 Challenge. note SM track record is ~2:05
http://www.speedventures.com/results/Default.aspx

last 4 track/race days, I was driving my Miata, I haven't spun once. 2 weeks ago, at TrackHQ vs. Magazine Pro Challenge, took my S2000 out. I managed to spun 4 times in 1 hour
no, I wasn't the only one. 6 of us were using my AP2 S (stock, just camber kit, pad and RE01R) for practice, all 6 had some offs

eagerly awaits for Jacob's report at next track day.

Last edited by bellwilliam; 10-27-2010 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 10-28-2010, 04:31 AM   #122
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Were home safe. Great car. I got him to take $350 more off for a busted cd player and door ding...lol

William, your freakin me out. I don't want a drifto car.
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:46 AM   #123
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bellwilliam,

Why didn't you install the BSK in your S2000?
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Old 10-28-2010, 11:51 AM   #124
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jacob300zx if you ever have custom shocks made by FCM you may want to ask for soft low speed damping in the rear, this may help reduce the rear's twitchiness.
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Old 10-28-2010, 02:03 PM   #125
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Were home safe. Great car. I got him to take $350 more off for a busted cd player and door ding...lol

William, your freakin me out. I don't want a drifto car.
I also have a busted CD player !!
don't worry, it isn't bad with AP2. you will get used to it.
on AP2 wheels, you can have 235/40 front, 255/40 rear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
bellwilliam,

Why didn't you install the BSK in your S2000?
real men don't need no stinking BSK !!
oh, I have an AP2, it isn't as bad as AP1.
I had a cheapo fiberglass trunk with GTC200 mounted on it (4 bolts and 2 minutes later, it is swapped back to stock). Wing helps a ton with mid / high speed corners. at low speed, I like it loose anyway. helps with rotation.

btw, Emilio of 949racing has BSK on his AP1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
jacob300zx if you ever have custom shocks made by FCM you may want to ask for soft low speed damping in the rear, this may help reduce the rear's twitchiness.
S2000 shocks are pretty good. it comes with reservoir !!
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Old 10-28-2010, 02:44 PM   #126
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I wonder what the best spring replacement is? Its so hard navigating through all the threads on S2ki.com. I bet I can get some camber off some drop springs too.
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Old 10-28-2010, 02:53 PM   #127
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I wonder what the best spring replacement is? Its so hard navigating through all the threads on S2ki.com. I bet I can get some camber off some drop springs too.
true. call Emilio, he has lowering springs (Tein) with stock shocks. I believe it is 3/4" drop or so. on his S2000.
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Old 10-28-2010, 03:28 PM   #128
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Look at the BSK threads if you plan to buy one. Looks like some good affordable stuff exists but also some dangerous/weak products are out there.
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Old 10-28-2010, 03:39 PM   #129
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bellwilliam View Post
Ireal men don't need no stinking BSK !!
oh, I have an AP2, it isn't as bad as AP1.
And real men like spinning out like in the vids you linked? Does the BSK have any downsides in speed/handling?
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Old 10-28-2010, 03:41 PM   #130
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S2000 shocks are pretty good. it comes with reservoir !!
A reservoir doesn't by itself a good shock make.

That the ride improves with KW coilovers despite higher spring rates tells you Honda didn't valve em so well.
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Old 10-28-2010, 06:27 PM   #131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
A reservoir doesn't by itself a good shock make.
lol @ yoda ^^^

jake, if you wanna throw on some springs for now, only ones i'd run if you can't find swift or espelir are the tanabe GF210. otherwise don't mess with it.
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Old 10-28-2010, 06:42 PM   #132
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And real men like spinning out like in the vids you linked? Does the BSK have any downsides in speed/handling?
like Cueball said. there are some crappy BSK out there. I had lunch this week with the guy who broke one on track.

pretty sure there is no downside to BSK. but I still think Jacob should drive as is w/o BSK first. if he spins it 3+ times a day, then may be BSK

all I can say is stock S2000 shocks are pretty good. I don't see reason to upgrade on a low mileage street car, unless Jacob is going all out. no doubt some aftermarket can do better, just saying stock S2000 shocks are good for a stock car. it handles curbs very well. Nam's S2000, still stock suspension, yet did 2:01.0 at BW13 on RS3 tires.
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Old 10-29-2010, 12:38 AM   #133
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Stock S2k with nothing but a wing, NT-01, and AST's:

lol @ that car in TTC
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Old 10-29-2010, 02:43 PM   #134
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With the money I saved on buying an MSM, a S2K would have a hell of a time trying to keep up in track conditions I believe.

Ohlins DFV
Intake
Exhaust
Larger Intercooler
EBC rotors & Hawk HPS Pads
15x7 wheels

Still waiting to get some Azenis on them but rolling w/ T1Rs... lol

Still have over a grand to spend...
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Old 10-29-2010, 03:08 PM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
With the money I saved on buying an MSM, a S2K would have a hell of a time trying to keep up in track conditions I believe.

Ohlins DFV
Intake
Exhaust
Larger Intercooler
EBC rotors & Hawk HPS Pads
15x7 wheels

Still waiting to get some Azenis on them but rolling w/ T1Rs... lol

Still have over a grand to spend...
Hate to burst your bubble but a stone stock AP1 with the same model and tire as your MSM would be faster and more reliable. This is not a guess. I'm intimately familiar with both options.
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Old 10-29-2010, 03:11 PM   #136
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The gods have spoken. Way to burst my bubble Emilio.

EDIT - Where and how would this be achieved since power to weight is not that far apart... is stock Honda handling better than the MSM could ever be?

Last edited by Bob Loblaw; 10-29-2010 at 03:25 PM.
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Old 10-29-2010, 04:16 PM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
The gods have spoken. Way to burst my bubble Emilio.

EDIT - Where and how would this be achieved since power to weight is not that far apart... is stock Honda handling better than the MSM could ever be?
Honestly, we're not entirely sure. The difference seems to be aero and contact patch, on paper at least.The Miata just has better inherent balance and is easier to drive at the limit.

On stock wheels and ties you have 195/195mm for the Miata and 215/245 for the S. On the widest wheels that fit under stock fenders you have 225/225 mm for the Miata and 255/275 for the S2000. The S2 has a .cd in the mid to high .30's even with big tires, the Miata around .48 once you put 225's on. Miata has a bunch of aero lift, the S2000 has very little.

Then you have the issue of peak power. Even though the lbs/hp can be matched, 197whp with a .38-.42 cd and only a bit more frontal area will have a bunch more top end speed than a 160whp car with .48 cd.

The only real downside of the S2000 for track use is the relative cost of the basic car as a starting point/replacement cost if you wad it up: $9k~14K for a good S2000, vs. 1.5-4K for a good NA or NB.
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Old 10-29-2010, 04:48 PM   #138
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Loblaw View Post
The gods have spoken. Way to burst my bubble Emilio.

EDIT - Where and how would this be achieved since power to weight is not that far apart... is stock Honda handling better than the MSM could ever be?
awww, you'll be okay. just so you know, the op already had a low mileage msm with ms coilovers, a begi upgrade kit with a gt2871 @10psi., larger intercooler, carbotechs, eibach sways, and 15x8 6ul's with ra-1's. so he's been there done that. there's a reason he had it widdled down to those few cars in particular.
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Old 10-29-2010, 05:00 PM   #139
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I think the thread has shifted from "Help me pick a track car" to "Help me not spin my new S2K into a wall", but out of curiosity...

...how do M3's (E36) and M Coupe's compare? Seems like I recall the M Couple being 200-300 lbs heavier than an S2K, but has similar power with a more usable powerband.
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Old 10-29-2010, 05:04 PM   #140
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Cost of tracking and maintenance goes up too.
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