Why is Adaptronic better than Megasquirt? - Page 4 - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

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Old 06-24-2009, 04:20 PM   #61
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The main loop speed refers to approxiametely how many times a second the processor can run every calculation it needs to function. So fuel trim, ignition trim, interpolation, and logic tables all happen 200 times a second. Maybe more equivalent to a monitor refresh rate then processor speed.

I would imagine its somewhere close to the MS-II processor speed, but thats a guess.
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Old 06-25-2009, 06:37 AM   #62
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200 seems somewhat slow, I would prefer something closer to 450. That would guarantee at least 3 main loop passes every single engine round at 8600rpm.

Jim
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Old 06-25-2009, 06:48 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
I think they use Modbus.
but that may be only for extracting data and, unfortunately, disabled in beta firmware/software.
Interesting, data extraction is actually what I need (integration with my super-long MTS chain is required). I wouldn't mind if I were able to set settings using this method, but its still not required right now.

Jim
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Old 06-25-2009, 08:46 AM   #64
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverant View Post
200 seems somewhat slow, I would prefer something closer to 450. That would guarantee at least 3 main loop passes every single engine round at 8600rpm.

Jim
You don't really need that kind of processing power though as it doesn't have to think to fire the ignition or the injectors. Those are fixed values that are loaded every loop. Right now the ECU at 8600 RPM is processing a signal more then once every engine rotation, and the only variables that matter are going to be dMAP dRPM dTPS ect. These values would cause new trigger variables to be loaded. So CPU speed is only really critical when the derivitive for critical values with respective to time is extremely high to the point where the CPU cannot extrapolate efficiently where the variables will land and what cell load. In the CPU's defense on 2 of those variables there is a look up table for the accelerator pump which negates rapid changes in throttle and MAP signal. So really the only change that is limited by loop speed is RPM.

Also keep in mind that your sensor inputs have to also be of higher rated speed as well. As dRPM dMAP dTPS all become extremely high as to fool the computer to becoming inaccurate it would also task the relatively inaccurate cam sensors and crank sensors. Not to mention the MAP sensor if sampled and taken seriously as this speed would show the transient MAP peaks as pulses entered and exited the plenum, and you would now see the effect of turbo cycling where compressor RPM speed can slow and raise by 50% per engine cycle. With the way things are now engine speed would have to increase some 250 RPM per an event cycle in order to greatly fool the computer into the next cell, which is simply far far too much dRPM for an engine to actually achieve.

I quickly calculated the tach sweep time for such an extravagant event to occur and it would take .6 seconds and 28 cylinder events to sweep the entire tach from 850 rpm. Thats just impossible.

Practically I noticed no high RPM deficiencies. It feels the exact same at 850 as it does at 8500 plus some buzz.

Last edited by TravisR; 06-25-2009 at 09:43 AM.
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Old 06-25-2009, 06:08 PM   #65
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I want my engine computer to be protein folding while making sure my water temp is in check god damnit.
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Old 06-25-2009, 07:00 PM   #66
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CarPS3+3g usb?
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Old 06-25-2009, 07:12 PM   #67
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Oh yea! My ECU cycles once per plank time. It counts the electrons going out in the ignition event, and atoms of fuel as well as air going in to give me a 14.70000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 000000000000000000000000 AFR. Whats up now?
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Old 06-25-2009, 09:52 PM   #68
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My ecu gives me blow jobs while making pancakes. w0rd
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Old 06-26-2009, 11:56 AM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
My ecu gives me blow jobs while making pancakes. w0rd
Phone number of said ECU?
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Old 06-26-2009, 12:41 PM   #70
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:02 PM   #71
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I found this thread on another forum, and wonder if the consensus has changed?
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:06 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99GTX30R View Post
I found this thread on another forum, and wonder if the consensus has changed?
Not sure, but you could try counting the number of threads in the Megasquirt section and then comparing them against the number of threads in the Adaptronic section.


Then pondering whether or not the overwhelming majority is often the wrong sect.


<3
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:07 PM   #73
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ms3x for the win.
adaptronic is dead. long live adaptronic
lol
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:14 PM   #74
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I dont post in here anymore because my **** works.
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:21 PM   #75
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If Adaptronic was so awesome, i would have replaced my Hydra with one.
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:22 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
ms3x for the win.
adaptronic is dead. long live adaptronic
lol
I seem to be putting the dots together... MS3PRO wasn't out when this thread was debated.

So can someone give me a break down between the MS3PRO and the PnP Adaptronic units? Has the Adaptronic units made any changes? I noticed they have a new website, and the US presence seems to be changing rapidly( based on the dealer link page)
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:25 PM   #77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99GTX30R View Post
I seem to be putting the dots together... MS3PRO wasn't out when this thread was debated.

So can someone give me a break down between the MS3PRO and the PnP Adaptronic units? Has the Adaptronic units made any changes? I noticed they have a new website, and the US presence seems to be changing rapidly( based on the dealer link page)


Adaptronic was pretty cutting edge for our extremely simple Miatas 5 years ago.

MS3Pro is fairly cutting edge.... today.

Do you have access to the specs pages to both products?
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:25 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by concealer404 View Post
If Adaptronic was so awesome, i would have replaced my Hydra with one.
Never heard of the Hydra, I tried their website.... And its down.. Not a good sign LOL!
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:28 PM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 99GTX30R View Post
Never heard of the Hydra, I tried their website.... And its down.. Not a good sign LOL!
o_O

If you've been away for that long, you probably have a bunch of reading to do.

Hydra has been a fairly "big" player in the Miata market for a long time. It's also fairly universally hated.


I can save you all your research and tell you to go MS3X, MS3Pro if you ball hard.
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Old 12-31-2013, 04:36 PM   #80
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I do from these two sites, but its hard to decipher...


MS3-Pro Standalone ECU with 8&#39 wiring harness DIYAutoTune.com
:

Freescale MC9S12X 16 bit, 50 MHz asymmetrical dual core processor
10 saturated injector drivers
8 logic level ignition outputs
3 high current (5 amp) general purpose outputs - 2 can be reconfigured as additional injector drivers
3 medium current (3 amp), high frequency general purpose outputs
All unused injector and ignition outputs can be used as SPARE outputs. This ECU has a LOT of I/O!
1 stepper H-bridge driver
Camshaft and crankshaft differential inputs - supports VR, Hall effect, and optical input
12 volt tach output
Fuel pump output
8 analog inputs (5 dedicated sensor inputs, 3 spare/general purpose)
4 spare digital on/off inputs
3 spare digital frequency inputs
2 knock sensor inputs
RS232, USB 2.0, and CAN communication
Onboard 8 gigabyte SD card for internal data logging
Internal ECU temperature sensor
Real time clock
Temperature range: -30 to +80 degrees C (-40 to +85 without battery for real time clock)
Software features:

Supports speed density, alpha-N, or MAF based fuel and spark tables
1 microsecond injector pulse width resolution
Tables for nonlinear injector behavior at small pulse widths
Allows blending multiple load types, including specialized mode for independent throttle bodies
Supports a wide variety of OEM cam and crank position sensors
Individual cylinder trim tables for fuel and ignition
Accelerator pump or model based acceleration enrichment
Closed or open loop idle speed control
Closed or open loop boost control with gear or speed based tuning options
On/off or closed loop continuously variable valve timing control - supports up to 4 channels
On/off or progressive nitrous control
Traction control
Rally anti-lag
Rotary support - can run up to 4 rotor engines with separate leading and trailing spark tables
Staged injection
Table switching
16 x 16 fuel and spark tables - can be reconfigured to function as 30 x 16 or 16 x 30 by switching tables based on RPM or load
2 or 3 step rev limiter with no-lift shifting
Wideband AFR target tables
Flex fuel sensor input
Allows repurposing injector or ignition outputs as general purpose outputs, or high current outputs as injector drivers for 12 cylinder sequential applications
Real time barometric correction
A/C and cooling fan control with idle compensation
Safety shutdown based on AFR or EGT input
Sequential shift cut and air shifter control
6 General purpose on/off or PWM inputs


Adaptronic Select Mazda MX5/Miata ECU

“3D” Fuel and Ignition maps (3216 cells per table) Water temperature corrections, air temperature corrections, auxiliary temperature (eg turbo), Manifold Air Pressure (MAP) sensor for load sensing, Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) for transient throttle response, knock sensing, O2/EGO (exhaust gas oxygen) for closed-loop fuel control Internal MAP sensor suitable for up to 40 psi of boost 3.5mm headphone jack for listening to knock PC interface via USB cable Numerous diagnostic LEDs (standalone models only), including LEDs to indicate trigger input detection and injector/ignition outputs Field upgradeable firmware Datalogging via ‘WARI’ PC software Free support by forum, email and phone 12 month ‘return to base’ warranty Closed-Loop Adaptive fuel control – with configurable tolerances and loop gains, and conditions under which adaptive behaviour takes place Flex Fuel control (requires fuel composition sensor to be fitted) Open-loop and closed-loop idle bypass control – allows configuration of increased idle bypass amount based on low battery, electrical load, air conditioner, as well as correction based on RPM, optional ignition timing control for idle speed regulation Open-loop and closed-loop boost control (where applicable) Closed-loop variable valve timing (VVT), where applicable Many other features!

Multiple tuning modes including Volumetric Efficiency for accurate & easy tuning.
Advanced Adaptive Fuel & Ignition Control including 100% configurable tolerances, loop gains, & conditions for automated AFR, IDLE, & Transient Throttle Control( Closed Loop Self Tuning).
Full sequential injection up to 4 cylinders/2 rotors. (semi-sequential up to 8 cylinders)
Full sequential Ignition up to 4 cylinders/2 rotors. (wasted spark up to 8 cylinders)
Internal 4 bar MAP sensor for engines running as high as 40 psi of boost.
Dual MAP Switching capability for street & track vehicles!
Integrated 3.5mm headphone jack for real-time listening to knock.
Analog inputs for all common temperature sensors (Water, Air Temperature, EGT) as well as MAP, TPS, Knock, & Oxygen Sensors.
Flex Fuel Control for maintaining accurate injection rates utilizing real-time ethanol content monitoring. (Requires Flex Fuel Sensor.)
Eight Auxiliary Outputs (four high current outputs & three PWM capable) for boost control, nitrous control, etc.
Eight configurable digital inputs. (A/C operation, Power Steering engagement, Clutch/Neutral switching)
Integrated Diagnostic LED's for easy visual confirmation of proper Trigger, Fuel Injection, & Ignition System operation.
Easy to use WARI tuning software with USB connection to PC's running Windows XP, Vista, 7, & 8.
Easy Datalogging with no additional hardware/software.
Dual closed-loop variable valve timing (VVT) channels.
Traction & Launch Control configuration.
Excellent direct and community technical support.
12 Month Warranty.

x1 Two-plug connector (same as Mazda NA6 and NA8 MX5/Miata)
x1 Mini USB port for connection to laptop
x2 2.5mm jacks for serial communications (one to connect to external loggers and dashes, the other to connector the Serial Output from the Innovative MTX-L Wideband- Requires Cable 3812)
x1 3.5mm headphone jack for listening to knock

Physical:
Dimensions (including mounting tabs)- 142 x 142 x 33 (mm) 5.5 x 5.5 x 1.3 (inches)
Mass- 0.4 kg / .8 lbs
Looms available- 0.5m (1.6") long for connection to existing loom & 2.0m (6.5") long for wiring directly to engine.

Sensor Interfaces:
Crank angle sensor types- Three programmable inputs, reluctor or hall-effect/optical, configurable as triggering ignition timing, injector drive, ignition timing during cranking, or cylinder 1 marker. Also capable of triggering off rising and/or falling edge on the same trigger input pin, internal pull-ups for hall-effect/optical trigger inputs
Crank angle trigger waveforms Sync / trigger / multitooth / missing tooth (versatile programmability), Nissan optical, Mitsubishi style with 2 sync pulses, Virtually all factory triggering systems
External Manifold Absolute Pressure (MAP) input- 0-5V, 2-point linear calibration, range 0 to 400 kPa (5V supplied by ECU). There is also an internal 4 bar MAP sensor installed inside the ECU.
Air, water and aux temp inputs- 4k7 pull-up (requires separate thermistor connected to ground), 32-point linearly interpolated calibration, range -30 to 125C
Oxygen Sensor (O2) input- 0-1V factory narrowband, or Bosch "wideband" - input impedance 10 MOhm. Compatible with: 0-5V linearised sensor (eg PLX, M&W UEGO) to aux input, an 0-3V Zietronix sensor to analogue input, or an M&W UEGO, TechEdge, Innovate LC-1 and TC-4 on secondary serial port.
Knock input- High impedance input, bandpass filtered, with headphone output.
Throttle position (TPS) input- 0-5V (5V supplied by ECU), 2-point calibration
Auxiliary digital inputs- 8 inputs, each configurable as active-high or active-low, 12V tolerant inputs.
Actuator Interfaces:
Number of injector drivers- 4
Injector driver waveforms- Full sequential, Batch, Semi-sequential every period or semi-sequential every second period, Half/third/quarter speed full sequential, Fire all at once every cylinder 1 (as on Swift GTi, Alpine Renault), Optional batch fire during cranking.
Injector driver current- Optional constant current or peak-hold drive, selectable steady-state current of 0.5A, 0.9A, 1.5A or 1.9A
Number ignition outputs- 4 (using 4th channel disables aux output 1)
Ignition output waveforms- Selectable as firing on rising edge or falling edge.
Ignition output type- Open-collector with 560Ohm pull-up (allows direct connection to OEM transistor or separate igniter box).
Number of auxiliary outputs- 8 (or 7 if using 4 ignition channels)
High current outputs- Max current 7A (or 3A inductive), 3 of these PWM capable, PWM frequency selectable (23Hz - 2kHz)
Low current outputs- Max current 200mA - suitable to drive relay coils
Control Characteristics:
Map points- 512 cells per fuel/ignition map, dual maps which can be toggled with digital input.
Load determination and Tuning Modes- Optional Volumetric Efficiency Tuning, TPS or MAP based, TPS using 2nd map as MAP backup, MAP using 2nd map as TPS backup, Both maps MAP or TPS, digital input to select, MAP and TPS map, digital input to select, MAP and TPS map, use MAP on closed throttle, otherwise TPS, Use max/min/average/sum (MAP, TPS), Read TPS from map and multiply by value in MAP table
Injector pulse width resolution- 0.7s (0 - 44ms)
Ignition resolution- 0.2 (0 - 51)
Dwell time resolution- 0.1ms (0.1ms - 5ms) Dwell time reduction for high RPM with high dwell time.
Accelerator pump- TPS and/or MAP based (configurable proportionality) as well as asynchronous accelerator pump. Works with TPS pot or switch - pot gives better performance.
Fuel control strategies- Open loop, closed loop, and two adaptive modes (requires EGO sensor) - can run open loop above a specific MAP if required, target AFR can be set across rev and load ranges.
Flex Fuel capability (requires fuel composition sensor to be fitted).
Fuel correction- Trim tables based on Coolant Temperature and Air Temperature, Dead-Time correction.
Ignition control strategies- Trim tables based on Coolant Temperature and Air Temperature.
Idle control strategies- Open loop values with a 32-entry temperature table, Target idle speeds with 32-entry temperature table, Idle effort correction for air temperature, Idle-up functionality based on A/C request, electrical loads, power steering. Can adjust ignition timing for closed loop idle control, as well as various types of idle control valves (2 wire, 3 wire, 6 wire stepper, and 4 wire stepper using an external driver available separately).
Main loop speed- 400 Hz (approx)
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