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the thread where Savington asks a lot of really, really dumb questions.

the thread where Savington asks a lot of really, really dumb questions.

Old 02-12-2010, 03:47 PM
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In that calibration you posted at AEM forums your ignition is off by 180 degrees for sure.

Go to: Ignition -> Advanced Ignition -> Ignition Phasing -> Options

and in the table:

Ign Tooth #1 (with your wiring this is your cylinder #2) should get 0.00
Ign Tooth #2 (with your wiring this is your cylinder #1) should get 1.00
Ign Tooth #6 (with your wiring this is your cylinder #3) should get 2.00
Ign Tooth #7 (with your wiring this is your cylinder #4) should get 3.00

Ign Tooth #3, #4, #5, #8, #9, #10 values don't matter because you're not using Coil 3, Coil 4 & Coil 5 of the AEM EMS for now

A difference of 1.0 is 180 degrees (4 tooth engine cycle in that Miata setup, so 4.00 difference = 720 degrees, 1.0 difference = 180 degrees).

So your current numbers are by 180 degrees off, which means you fire on TDC exhaust ... a nice full time anti-lag you have currently setup there ... you fire the fuel right when you blow it in the tail pipe

Those numbers for the each Ign Tooth specify where in the engine cycle each output fires.
Ign Tooth 1 and Ign Tooth 6 are pin 1H (the name of which is "Coil 1")
Ign Tooth 2 and Ign Tooth 7 are pin 1G (the name of which is "Coil 2")

I haven't checked your fuel injection positions yet
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Old 02-12-2010, 04:06 PM
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Your fueling positions ( Fuel -> Advanced Fuel -> Injector Phasing -> Options ) are correct.

With the current numbers you're always firing the injectors at 79 degrees after TDC exhaust, which should be an ok startup setup (the exhaust valves are closed by then)

So, just fix your ignition numbers and start that engine
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Old 02-12-2010, 04:07 PM
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"Tooth #1" really means "TDC for IG output #1 is at:"
Then the number you enter to the right is the crank tooth #, for TDC. The TDC point is further fine tuned by the variable which you adjust in the timing setup screen.

The AEM on a 99-05 miata counts only 2 of the 4 teeth, so it virtually has a 4 tooth engine cycle. (It can't time off of uneven teeth, so it has to ignore 2 of the teeth on the crank) The gap between teeth is 180* on the crank. (Aside: I'd wanted to get someone to build me a 12-1 trigger wheel for the ATI, for more resolution)

So

"tooth #1" is where you fire IG output #1
"tooth #2" is where you fire IG output #2
"tooth #3" is where you fire IG output #3
"tooth #4" is where you fire IG output #4
"tooth #5" is where you fire IG output #5

"tooth #6" is the "virtual" ignition output, for waste spark, and its signal comes out on IG output #1.
"tooth #7" comes out on IG out #2
and so on

If you have waste spark where #1 and #4 are paired, and if you connect its coil to IG out #1, then you will use "tooth #1" and "tooth #6" to set their timing respectively. The reason for considering them separate despite sharing an output wire, is so you can do cylinder trim and distinguish between 1 and 4.
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Old 02-12-2010, 04:18 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
The TDC point is further fine tuned by the variable which you adjust in the timing setup screen.
Which actually is the "Ignition Sync" field in the screen I mentioned above

It just shifts all the Ign Tooth XX values by adding the value it contains.
It's just an extra variable (added there for convenience) so you can quickly shift all those values at the same time by a single number.


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Old 02-12-2010, 04:36 PM
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BTW will it accept a negative value?
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Old 02-12-2010, 04:57 PM
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Brand new motor, different ignition sensors, brand new ECU, new 1000cc injectors... and with Julien's settings, it lit right off. Need to sort out the idle and a radiator leak that I caused, but it lives. I owe you a beer, Julien.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
it lit right off



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Old 02-12-2010, 05:22 PM
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Btw, be careful not to overheat that engine.
With my '94 back then I found that the OEM Miata coolant sensor calibration in the AEM Wizard was wrong.

Here are the numbers I am using in the Coolant Sensor Cal table (the values are in degrees F) and this way the AEM via the stock '94 sensor reads exactly as the aftermarket coolant sensor/water temp gauge I have:

261 259 221 190 180 167 154 140 133 127 118 111 109 102 95 88 79 72 64 57 50 45 37 30 25 18 12 7 1 -4 -9 -15 -20


The radiator fan in my software calibration is set to turn on above 201 degrees F, and turn off below 196 degrees F.

I am running the stock '94 thermostat (which IIRC is set to maintain 190 degrees F)

In the AEM startup calibration you'll see that the fan is set to come on above 171 and turn off below 165 which just ain't right, cause the stock thermostat keep point is above 165. I guess it somehow works with their wizard calibration numbers, but be careful

Do you have a good aftermarket gauge and sensor besides the stock ones?

Last edited by j_man; 02-12-2010 at 07:10 PM.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:28 PM
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I do, yeah. I don't use a thermostat on this motor so I'll set the fans around ~170. Thanks.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I do, yeah. I don't use a thermostat on this motor so I'll set the fans around ~170. Thanks.
Ok, so after you put my coolant sensor calibration numbers in, monitor whether the Coolant Temp parameter is showing the same number as your aftermarket gauge from cold to warm while your engine is warming up. Should be close with my numbers and it should be quite off with the AEM numbers.

Last edited by j_man; 02-12-2010 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 02-12-2010, 05:47 PM
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Originally Posted by JasonC SBB View Post
BTW will it accept a negative value?
Yes as a logic, but not literally

The period of the tooth counter in the Miata case is 4.0 (because you have 4 teeth), which means all the numbers describing a position in the engine cycle are positive numbers in the 0 .. 3.99(9) range.

4 is the same as 0, that's why the max number is 3.99(9)

And if you want a negative number -0.05 for example then it is the exact same thing as 3.95 ( 4.0 - 0.05 = 3.95 ), so you put 3.95 in the field
If in the "Set Ignition ..." screen you keep pressing the "-" button and monitor the "Ignition Sync" option, you'll see that it is what exactly will happen once you request smaller than 0 number.

Dunno if my explanation was clear, if not tell me I'll try again

Last edited by j_man; 02-12-2010 at 06:00 PM.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:05 PM
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Originally Posted by j_man View Post
Btw, be careful not to overheat that engine.
With my '94 back then I found that the OEM Miata coolant sensor calibration in the AEM Wizard was wrong.

Here are the numbers I am using in the Coolant Sensor Cal table (the values are in degrees F) and this way the AEM via the stock '94 sensor reads exactly as the aftermarket coolant sensor/water temp gauge I have:

261 259 221 190 180 167 154 140 133 127 118 111 109 102 95 88 79 72 64 57 50 45 37 30 25 18 12 7 1 -4 -9 -15 -20


The radiator fan in the software calibration is set to turn on above 201 degrees F, and turn off below 196 degrees F.

I am running the stock '94 thermostat (which IIRC is set to maintain 190 degrees F)

In the AEM startup calibration you'll see that the fan is set to come on above 171 and turn off below 165 which just ain't right, cause the stock thermostat keep point is above 165. I guess it somehow works with their wizard calibration numbers, but be careful

Do you have a good aftermarket gauge and sensor besides the stock ones?
Wow, that could explain why my setup is always running super hot. I have a second fan hooked up to a manual switch, and find I'm using it all the time. Will have to redo that table.
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Old 02-12-2010, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by dustinb View Post
Wow, that could explain why my setup is always running super hot. I have a second fan hooked up to a manual switch, and find I'm using it all the time. Will have to redo that table.
My car with my numbers from above - the fan works like stock. I calibrated the numbers by looking at the aftermarket gauge.

I guess some day I should just get a simple lab thermometer a container full of coolant, dip the Miata sensor in it, put it on the stove and record the readings in AEMPro vs the thermometer. That's what people usially do at the AEM forums for a new platform when if want to be precise Any volunteers to do it?


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Old 02-12-2010, 07:24 PM
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Yes with a 4 tooth cycle it's modulo 4.
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Old 02-13-2010, 11:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
I do, yeah. I don't use a thermostat on this motor so I'll set the fans around ~170. Thanks.
Do you use a restrictor? I'd run something to get enough pressure differential, so coolant goes through your CHRA.

I'm glad to hear the settings worked! Same thing happened to me being off 180deg. Got confused with coil 1 running 2&3 by default wasted spark, so when I switched to sequential, I kept the tooth count on coil 1 the same and assumed it was correct for cyl. 1.

My sequential ignition tooth counts match my sequential injection tooth counts.
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Old 02-13-2010, 01:05 PM
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Yeah, I use a gutted thermostat to restrict the flow slightly. I don't have a heater core or any way to bypass the thermostat when cold so the easiest way was just to gut it.
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 02-25-2010, 09:39 PM
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Stupid question time. Two wires on the VVT - purple and yellow. Which goes to INJ9 on the AEM, which goes to INJ10?
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 02-26-2010, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Savington View Post
Stupid question time. Two wires on the VVT - purple and yellow. Which goes to INJ9 on the AEM, which goes to INJ10?
There should be just one wire to a LS output (INJ9). The other LS output (INJ10) is if you have an engine which has a second VVT cam (i.e. Honda K20).
I guess talk to Jason, he might've checked which wire in the '01 harness is what already.

Also maybe check in advance that INJ9 is already wired from the board the EMS connector - use a multimeter, while manually toggling INJ9 from the software (when you turn it on, double check that the corresponding parameter in the parameters window shows ON too). Don't forget to turn off the manual override once the test is done so it doesn't fight with the VVT functionality.
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Old 02-26-2010, 05:01 AM
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Does the VVT solenoid get 5 or 12 volts?

Does anyone have an online copy of the 2001+ wiring diagram?
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Originally Posted by codrus View Post
Basically I've come over to the camp of "If something is a reliability problem on the track, just ask Andrew and do what he says".
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Old 02-26-2010, 08:03 AM
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12V sir.

Jim
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The “into to megasquirt thread” mentions that the MS3 basic has 5 inputs with built in pull up resistors - and I was just wondering why it would have so many, while the MS3Pro PnP has just 2 (with no pull ups?)
MS Labs: Plug and Play Megasquirt ECUs for ANY 90-05 Miata (NA, NB1, NB2 w/VVT, MSM), including basemaps to get you started ASAP. PM me or email or details.
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