Here is a way Nascar cools their cars



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High Downforce: February 2009

 

I'm not sure if you guys recall Pennon Composites, but they had the NB widebody kit and did Formula Racing parts, e-prod, and all sorts of aero. Well the owner had died last year and the owner of CCE Composites (steve maxwell), bought out their molds.

I just called up Steve being interested in purchasing some stuff from him, and talked to him for a bit. He is huge into Formula racing and some club racing, but I am the first miata guy to contact him, so he did not know much about miatas. Told him about the aero discussion thread here, some of the stuff that was being done and researched and peaked his interest. I'm hoping he will chime in with his knowledge and maybe produce some stuff that might benefit us.

Talked to him about using kevlar over fiberglass for strength, cf, and carbon kevlar, and his prices are also some of the most lenient ones I've seen, so here's to hoping for lightweight stuff also for the guys that aren't being ruled by restrictions and points out there.

 

I have been having this on my mind for a while and want to see what you guys think. I have to find something to do with the exhaust. I don't really want to have some over the top setups.

But I will be running 1500-2000 lbs of downforce over all. With the rear setup already in the planning book, I need help with the front end. Here is some ideas from the Ferrari 599 race car.

I know this was used in a previous discussion. This setup could reduce drag and make the diffuser/wing more efficient.



This setup is off of the 599XX Evo. This I guess is away to produce a better skirt barrier between the side and under the car.

 

OK, square splitter is ready to roll for this weekend, we'll see how it does. The spar varnish fucked up the paint finish beyond all comprehension (super streaky), so ****-tastic vinyl to make it presentable took the nod. Did happen to notice the cause of my horrific bump steer, which as expected, has to do with the control arm/tie rod angle (they're barely parallel at full suspension droop).

 

Supe--How fast have you taken the car up as it sits now

 

Is it suppose to catch all the air where the edges of the splitter meet the fender by the side marker?

 

2:14, last year's class winner was in the 2:20's, this year's class winner was a crushing Evo with a much better driver who went a 1:57. I was within 2-3 seconds of an LS powered 944 with a much better driver on A6's, so at least I'm headed in the right direction (this is only my third event ever).


As far as the spill plates on the splitter, more or less. It's a pretty heavy curvature up front, so there's not much to create a positive pressure over on the sides. Fairly low speed course, won't see the other side of 110mph or so, so its more or less an experiment to determine what route I want to go with the Eprod front air dam setup next year (cost was zero for the spill plates, still had leftover ABS). I'm also trying to divert air away from the front tires to a degree, which stick out quite a bit. Also, making it gave me an excuse to hide in the garage, away from the SO and 6 year old

If it seems to be some sort of massive hindrance, I will take it off and put the old splitter back on (mounting hardware was kept the same). Getting quite a bit of blow by on the motor, so I'm hoping it doesn't give up the ghost at 7200 rpm.

 

Seems to me that the sill plates could just create huge amounts of drag. Funneling lots of air down to a little crevice between the plate and the air dam.


But I may be wrong, it may be worth the added drag. Educate me.

 

Can we talk Vortex Generators? I've seen people experiment with them on the top rear of hardtops, but nowhere else.

Saw this on the way home today:

 

What do you really want to know? People put them on hardtops because that's where the flow starts to separate. You don't really see too much flow separation if at all in the front of the car. Other places that would be beneficial would be behind the tire (if you have vented fenders).

 

Those are Air Tabs...

Aerodynamic truck, trailer, RV add on for fuel saving, stability, safety

 

Only one way to find out. Keep in mind, the Peugot 208 T16 and Monster's Suzukis both used the same setup, no break/outlet in the crevice. If its doing more harm than good, I'll yank it off. Fortunately, I've got somewhere in the neighborhood of 400-450 HP and only see 4th gear a few times, so I've got enough torque and rear gear to offset some drag that I otherwise wouldn't want at a higher speed course.

 

Can you elaborate on the fender comment?

 

of course. the area right behind the wheel is very turbulent, has lots of drag, and unclean flow. Adding VG here may help clean the flow down the side of the car better. You can see the flow behind the wheel better in that video of the fastback with all the yarn tufts taped over it.

 

I assume you mean the front wheel.
So would you place the tabs on the rear edge of the front bumper, so the vortices would smooth flow over the spinning wheel and tire, rearwards.

 

Also don't forget those guys (Monster etc) had huge rear downforce to retain overall balance.....a bit more than the standard APC can generate ( I would think....)

 

I think you still over estimate how much down force you can make up front with a splitter. Mine is much larger than that rx7's but without endplates, but even at auto-x speeds my car goes from neutral to understeeer as you start to get into the speeds there the aero is working (~45mph).

 

Leafy, as you know, Auto X is totally different to circuit racing. The forces increase exponentially with the added speed...we are generally going 100 - 210+ km/h....

Many people here have tried splitters, even small ones without rear aero and found the car un-driveable...AutoX (from what I gather) is ALL about front end grip and less about balance.

Whereas circuit racing is more heavily focused on balance... I think it was Dann most recently that had a huge front splitter like this one (without side/end plates) and ended up cutting 3/4 of it off just to get the car to be driveable (balance).

But more specifically I think the side plates he has will add significant down force (and huge drag) in comparison to yours without....

I could be very wrong in my theory but am very interested to hear the results.

 

But IIRC splitters get less efficient compared to wings at higher speeds. Of course a splitter and no wing is going to be unstable. But with the splitter wing combo I would expect aero balance to move reward as speed increased.

 

That guy is a tool. He has a blog called "high downforce" and then bitches about splitters (which he incorrectly calls wings) and wings being used on NASCAR's?