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New Cheap Aluminum wing option

 
Old 05-23-2018, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Junkwhale View Post
It looks like it's designed with something specific in mind which was why I was asking. Using some 90 degree aluminium angle stock it looks like your gurney flap will stick at an odd angle. Could just be the picture that looks like though I guess...
What would consider a non-odd look to be? It looks appropriate to be coming off perpendicular in reference to the back end such that the kutta condition occurs off body. It's just dragging out the two flow streams rejoining further away from the foil. Again these things are a small percentage of the chord length.

As a reference the thickness of the airfoil on the back end is 0.312", the gurney will protrude less than that thickness at 0.03c
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Old 05-24-2018, 08:33 AM
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Non-odd would be perpendicular to the chord line but it probably doesn't matter much.

Anyway, I emailed Johnny and he promptly replied with an email titled 'my gurney's wáng flap'. He's working with a supplier to make one that slots in for a quick install/removal so should be an easy option available soon.

Last edited by Junkwhale; 05-24-2018 at 08:58 AM.
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Old 05-24-2018, 10:49 AM
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Originally Posted by psyber_0ptix View Post
1-3% of chord length according to https://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...6988699800010X


Nlr states ~9.5" chord length ergo 0.095-.285" for the flap length. The channel embedded in the wing is about 0.285" already.

Maybe find some aluminum or carbon fiber angle stock to fit?

I measured the width of the channel at 0.086" so that's the approximate limit to how thick the gurney can be to utilize that spot.
I found multiple aluminum angle options on McMaster that would suit but would need to be trimmed down to fit the existing channel. I'm going to wait to see if it's something I really need. Also going to wait and see if Johnny comes up with something himself.
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Old 07-03-2018, 04:39 PM
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Little update on this:


I had the wing alone for GridLife Midwest festival at Gingerman and I had to have it dialed all the way back to 2-4º in order to keep the steering from getting light in sweepers. The 5" splitter has balanced everything out beautifully at ~8º or so.
I've spent the last 15 years driving cars on track with NO aero features and I can definitely tell a huge difference between the car in last year's form and now with the aero. I'm not an expert and can't compare it with anything else on the market, but I CAN say that I am very happy with the cost vs. results.

More details and pictures in my build thread here:
https://www.miataturbo.net/build-thr...3/#post1489651
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Old 12-04-2018, 09:50 AM
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For those interested, Nine Lives is going to release a dual element version of their aluminum wing in early '19. I am very curious as to what the CFD data will look like, as I'm sure they've just added a second element to the original copycat Elan profile. This could be a big deal for those of us who are too poor for a $3K APR/RHR setup. If it comes in under a grand and looks like a big CL step up over my COT wing in that 70-120 MPH window, I'm ordering up a 70"+ version and going to town, especially since I can use my existing wing uprights.
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Supe View Post
For those interested, Nine Lives is going to release a dual element version of their aluminum wing in early '19. I am very curious as to what the CFD data will look like, as I'm sure they've just added a second element to the original copycat Elan profile. This could be a big deal for those of us who are too poor for a $3K APR/RHR setup. If it comes in under a grand and looks like a big CL step up over my COT wing in that 70-120 MPH window, I'm ordering up a 70"+ version and going to town, especially since I can use my existing wing uprights.
I doubt it will be under a grand considering the swanneck is ~$1100 and I'd expect this to be more expensive. I'd guess the $1500-$1800 range for the kit.
Also, these aren't "Elàn copycats", they are MADE by Elàn.
Can't wait to see someone add DRS to them, I know it's gotta happen...
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Old 12-04-2018, 10:34 AM
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Sorry, I'm speaking specifically about the "builder" wing elements, not mounting kits/add ons. The existing single element is < $400 in 71". Even if you double that and factor in endplates to get the second element as they intended, you're at a grand-ish. Sure hope they continue to offer the builders kit version of the dual element, and not just application-specific options.

Elan copycat is referencing the fact that the Elan profile was copied to an extrusion. Pretty sure the original for IMSA was carbon?
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Old 12-04-2018, 11:53 AM
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This profile comes from the Elan NP01 which uses this EXACT aluminum extrusion. Johnny was originally buying them direct from Elan.
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Old 12-04-2018, 12:09 PM
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Oh, good deal! If that element jives well with the one they're adding to it (assuming its the same), I'm pretty excited about it. It should be the most cost effective way of balancing out a front splitter with tunnels.
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Old 06-04-2019, 09:58 AM
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Now that they've released the second element kit, what's everyone's thoughts? 308# at 100 MPH, 34# of drag, 613# at 140mph, 68# of drag.

I'm pretty torn right now. I could pick up a dual element NLR wing and have it be a virtual bolt on for < $1K, or go with a GT-1000 wing for more than 2X the price and have to make/move uprights for it. While considerably draggier, the GT-1000 definitely outclasses the NLR wing in sheer downforce numbers at lower speeds. I only run 2 tracks typically where I would anticipate seeing north of 130 MPH, and two of those would require heavy braking into the first turn anyways. At a crossroads as to whether I give the NLR 71" dual element wing a try, or make the jump to the GT-1000 and hope I can offset the drag and rear DF with a new front splitter setup. Car makes north of 600 WHP, and was tail happy with 1/2 the power and a COT wing, albeit with less tire.
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Old 06-04-2019, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Supe View Post
Now that they've released the second element kit, what's everyone's thoughts? 308# at 100 MPH, 34# of drag, 613# at 140mph, 68# of drag.

I'm pretty torn right now. I could pick up a dual element NLR wing and have it be a virtual bolt on for < $1K, or go with a GT-1000 wing for more than 2X the price and have to make/move uprights for it. While considerably draggier, the GT-1000 definitely outclasses the NLR wing in sheer downforce numbers at lower speeds. I only run 2 tracks typically where I would anticipate seeing north of 130 MPH, and two of those would require heavy braking into the first turn anyways. At a crossroads as to whether I give the NLR 71" dual element wing a try, or make the jump to the GT-1000 and hope I can offset the drag and rear DF with a new front splitter setup. Car makes north of 600 WHP, and was tail happy with 1/2 the power and a COT wing, albeit with less tire.
So the CFD data we have posted was with the main foil/main plane at 0* AOA. You could actually generate more down-force with the dual-element setup as the AOA on the main plane increases. Keeping in mind the foil stalls around 8 deg.
With the dual element flap I don't know where it might stall, but the flap works well when angled at 35 or 40 deg with respect to the main plane.


So if you leave the assembly together and increase the AOA of the full assembly it should work well until it stalls, which with the flap I would make a wild guess is a little shallower than the main plane alone, so maybe 6 deg
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Old 06-04-2019, 10:24 PM
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Originally Posted by flier129 View Post
So the CFD data we have posted was with the main foil/main plane at 0* AOA. You could actually generate more down-force with the dual-element setup as the AOA on the main plane increases. Keeping in mind the foil stalls around 8 deg.

With the dual element flap I don't know where it might stall, but the flap works well when angled at 35 or 40 deg with respect to the main plane.


So if you leave the assembly together and increase the AOA of the full assembly it should work well until it stalls, which with the flap I would make a wild guess is a little shallower than the main plane alone, so maybe 6 deg
Thanks, I appreciate the feedback. Just ordered the NLR 71" wing w/dual element add on. If I don't like it, I guess I'll either put it on my 944 or move it to the front of the car...

Last edited by Supe; 06-04-2019 at 10:45 PM.
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