300hp to 400hp upgrade
 

Hey,

Got an whole vvt engine for cheap so I'll build it and then swap it in my NA8.

It is a VVT engine from an automatic Miata, work plan is to disassemble it, clean it, measure everything, machine shop, build it and boost it 20-25 psi.

The things I plan to do to it :)

- Intake manifold total clean
- Intake butterflys delete (must I ?) (or square top)
- Reuse my CAS (any reason not too ? it is much easier this way)
- Reroute + water neck delete
- Reroute the heater metal line under the exhaust manifold
- Use my NA8 alternator
- Head porting
- Block boring 83.5mm ? 84mm ? decision after measures
- VVT on/off using DIYPNP
- Knock sensor utilization with my KS-PRO
- ID1000 injectors
- Sort out the return/returnless fuel lines
- Mazda competition engine mounts
- FM stage 1 clutch kit
- VVT engine starter motor for my 6spd
- ebay rods
- ARP
- pistons+rings not sure which yet
- King bearings (manufactured locally :))
- Cast iron ebay manifold
- Ebay turbo
- OEM Oil cooler delete
- Oil cooler
- Oil pressure sender to replace on/off switch
- Oil and fuel pressure sensors
- EGR delete


Got a new engine stand for the job, and a new air compressor.
Got a lot of stuff off the engine and kept all the bolts labeled.

I shooting for 400hp at the crank

Some pix and updates asap.


https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...57ddfe2ee.jpeg

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You might want to go for the FM2 clutch for the additional torque it holds over the FM1.

You cant use the CAS and have VVT work. You need to upgrade to the NB sensors. Which is good, what I've seen from the few cars that have done CAS to real sensors at the 300+ power range picked up over 20hp because they didnt have timing scatter and could run more base timing without knock.

I didn't know this..but I guess I am dumb because that makes loads of sense.

Technically you could add in the VVT Tuner from DIY and have that use NB sensors, while the ecu uses the CAS. Not really the best way to do it, but it is doable.

I thought of using the CAS and controling the VVT like that:

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...f1f8129072.png

Or just use an MS3. A lot easier, no? Yes to the square top.

Why do you list the want for crank horsepower? Will this thing get run on an engine dyno?

I allready run a DIYPNP ecu so enabling vvt using it would be cheaper then getting an ms3.

Locally we use the crank power as indication and on dyno the wheels power.

I'm surprised nobody said anything about a harmonic dampener or oil pump gears yet :confused:

I think that most people are assuming that if you are going for 400 hp in a miata, you've got the basics down. But uewh, needs a BE pump and good damper.

As I understand it, reinforced oil pump and dumper are needed for high rpm application, I'm going 7200-7500rpm so I will be using the stock pump and dumper.

You have 300hp at the moment and are aiming for 400hp?

The last thing on my mind when driving my 300hp Miata was wanting to add more power!

flywheel

subscribed for catastrophic failure.

seriously though, you need at least an oil pump with billlet gears.

I talk to people running oem pistons, oil pump and dumper - I think they proof the point.

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...22d35c7016.jpg
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The E cam looks spot on but the I cam looks a little off - previous install error or is it normal ?
What is the PN for the VVT screw ?
https://cimg6.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...991c996e94.jpg
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The head bolts are 12mm 12points socket ? can I use regular socket ?
https://cimg9.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...d3d89d6c5d.jpg

The little metel thingy would not come out... what can I do ?

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...4559f6a3c1.jpg

Very excited :)
Elior

Show me one single person running 350 hp with stock pump and damper.

See those negative cats? Contrary to popular belief, they aren't because people dont like you. Those are from poor references, thoughts, and incorrect statements.

You are at the premiere miata turbo forum, take the advice.

Show me one single person running 350 hp with stock pump and damper.

See those negative cats? Contrary to popular belief, they aren't because people dont like you. Those are from poor references, thoughts, and incorrect statements.

You are at the premiere miata turbo forum, take the advice from those that know from past experiences. Facebook is a terrible point of reference.

If by "metel thingy" you mean the main sprocket it should be pryed off.
+1 for the billet pump and ati or super miata damper, you NEED those at that power level. Many people can and will make the argument that you will need a new damper at sub 250 whp power levels

in for -CATastrophic failure.. for 400 you are going to really want billet oil pump gears and a dampner. Its not about rpm, its about the power you are putting through the crank.

It really scares me that you are doing this yourself and you do not know what a keyway is and did not know that a 6 point socket really wont do the job for a 12 point head bolt. Thats super basic info.

ignorance is bliss, I think.....

I passed on the billet pump gears. Running a supermiata pully, it's just good practice. Everyone in the racing community rolls with one of these, shit breaks real quick at 400hp - I should know, I"m well over that figure.

Sub'd for what not to do.

I would like to point out that this is not the only damper choice. There has also been much debate on this forum about whether this is the best choice for a damper due to its methods for damping. I know it has been run with success on many race cars so I am sure it is adequate but there is more too the conversation.

I know at least two local 1.6 cars (97 and 00 - both euro cars obviously) that were in the 400+ hp region without dampers and billet pump gears. Both street racing cars, one of them would do like 25 pulls in one night straight. Lucky? Maybe so. I have billet gears on my engine and looking forward to a damper before I go over 500whp.

Hmmmm. Still not something I'm willing to chance.

25 pulls....That's a run every 10 minuts for 4 hours. Im afraid I have to throw the Bullshit flag. Maybe a few, but 25 is tough to believe.

damn, I don't know. Maybe you guys race from like 6pm to 2 am. I guess then it would be a reasonable amount.

I got to do 11 pulls one Wednesday night and there must have been 150 cars running that night. I think it's usually closer to 250.
If you win you get to keep racing.
(edit)We race front 3:30 to 10 PM.

Wow, ok, I could be wrong then. The hillbillies where I live are a lot slower. 100 cars and I got a run every hour or so.

I have been to slow days too but usually when someone spews stuff all over the track. Also weekend and holiday events are usually pretty slow.
There is a drag race at Sonoma this weekend. I might try to show up early and maybe get 2 runs in before I get sick of waiting and go home.
Wednesday nights are all locals who just want as many passes as possible.

Disassembly complete !

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...c24bdbf091.jpg
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I noticed that the numbers on the rods do not match the numbers on the pistons and do not match the cylinder number... someone been there before ?
I mean there is a number on the rod like "2" and a number on the piston "3" it suppose to be rod 2 piston 2 in cylinder 2 ?

The timing gear was a beach to take out...I think I need a new one...

Everything looks very very good, the cylinders walls, the pistons and rings and the crank.

Measuring and then to the machine shop :)

The machine shop will do all of the measuring for you. If any of the journals are polished, turned or the cylinders are honed or bored, your measurements will change.

I gave the engine to a professional builder.
The bores measure with in spec but since I get forged pistons 83.5mm I understand boring is a must.

Anyway this is the (regular) part list:

VVT 05 engine

wiseco pistons 83.5mm 8.6:1
ebay rods
arp main and head
OEM seals
new block plugs
Victor Haines headgasket
OEM bearings
ATI damper
Boundery pump
new water pump and timing kit
new valve stem seals

Can I get 83mm for straight drop in ?

Thanks
Elior

Put that clutch and flywheel combo in my kid's car and it just works....
I wouldn't want to drive it in LA traffic, but other than that it seems good to go.
Probably not good if you have sparrow legs.... :)

What specs do I look for in a turbo for around 350whp ?

Thanks

An EFR 6758.

I am going for an ebay turbo, what spec do I look for ?

funny :td:

Check out patsmx5's build thread for some. Most people who start going for that power just buy an EFR because budget is no longer a concern.

I made 300 maxing out an eBay turbo. It wasn't efficient. The lag was annoying. I switched to EFR and the power is way more useable. If you want 400hp you want an EFR. btw, have you ever driven a 400hp miata? It's kinda scary...

Pff I'm sitting here thinking 300 is scary :sad2:

Talking fw power.

400 at the fw is still over 300whp. Have you ever driven a 300whp miata?

No, my current setup is around 300fw so the next upgrade is to around 400fw.

You're definitely going to want a better manifold than a cheap eBay one. You'll want a real turbo, either EFR or GT3076. You'll need the FM happy meal 2. You'll probably also want a brake upgrade. I suggest driving a miata with 300whp and decide if the monetary investment is worth it to you. Also remember that things tend to break often when you're at that power, so anything preventative that you can do you should such as a BE oil pump.

patsmx5 run 500hp with ebay cast manifold and a cheap ebay turbo.

FM2 maybe come to be a must, I have FM1 NIB.

BE oil pump will go in so is ATI and forged rods+pistons.

You say that 300whp will need less spending ?

Thanks

Pat also breaks things all the time.

Not the manifold...

He does not use the eBay cast manifold any more. He switched to a CXRacing manifold.

I have to agree with this part.

With great power, supporting mods will be needed.

Try driving a 300rwhp miata with stock non sport brakes....... Also add tires/wheels to that. I can spin my 15x9 225/45/15 R1Rs through 1st-2nd and I'm only close to 300, or at least not dyno confirmed.

Yup forgot about that. I can break my 15x9 245/45/15 RS4s loose at almost any time through 4th

Pat also has a...second turbo.

Pat also changes things all the time, fixes things all the time, modifies things all the time, and does really crazy things all the time, none of which you seem to be capable of. If you are really foolish enough to compare your build to his, well then you're in for a surprise. You're missing the big picture here, and it's really sad

I mean....................you can't even seem to get your current manifold and turbo to seal. After multiple tries......lol

Skimps out on using a 12pt socket for head studs... wants to build 400hp miata

https://cimg3.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...579909c717.png

Stock brakes are fine. As long as you dont need to stop fast more than like 8 times in a row.

I lol'd IRL :rofl:

I think the ebay 3076 with a 0.63 A/R would make 400 flywheel hp very easily. Probably 500 flywheel hp if you try to make the hotside parts flow decent. I have nothing against nice turbos, but you can make power with ebay turbos if you try. There's a lot of info in my build thread about how I built my setup if you want an idea of what went into making ebay turbos work reliably and make decent power.

VVT could help make up for a little bit of spool on a china charger, no?

That is a fair statement but that 9th time is scary. Nothing like slamming the brake the the floor and not slowing down :eek: Some decent pads, SS lines, and brake ducts would be a cost effective approach.

Drive a 70's fiat and talk about slowing down