Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats. (https://www.miataturbo.net/)
-   Build Threads (https://www.miataturbo.net/build-threads-57/)
-   -   300hp to 400hp upgrade (https://www.miataturbo.net/build-threads-57/300hp-400hp-upgrade-91918/)

sonofthehill 08-27-2017 03:15 PM

No don't do that, just multiple steps up to torque.
Don't loosen them unless you plan to change the head gasket.

18psi 08-27-2017 05:04 PM

loosening is a procedure on some cars, but definitely not a BP iirc

elior77 08-28-2017 11:34 AM

I got a few questions I hope you guys can answer:

1. Any real reason to get the Gates water pump with the cast impeller ? I got a regular one.
2. Do I need anything more then the stock replacement for the trigger wheel to go with the ATI damper ?

Thanks

ysleem 08-28-2017 11:41 AM


Originally Posted by elior77 (Post 1436296)
I got a few questions I hope you guys can answer:

1. Any real reason to get the Gates water pump with the cast impeller ? I got a regular one. What is the difference in cast and non cast? Is it better balanced? Is there a keeper bolt for the impeller that is better? Is it heavier or easier to turn? Will it load the engine more being cast vs not?
2. Do I need anything more then the stock replacement for the trigger wheel to go with the ATI damper ? - nothing is ever NEEDED just recommended. You should know the answer to this one though if you already have 250 hp...

Thanks

Do you know why people do that? You answer will be pretty straight forward when you find the why instead of asking others to tell it to you. I have asked some people the question, but with those power goals you need to be clear on your failure modes on the car...you need to figure out what fail safes need to be put into place with respect to your ECU as well.

ysleem 08-28-2017 11:43 AM


Originally Posted by 99mx5 (Post 1403905)
You can build a 400 WHP miata for cheap and it might last for a week. You will have to spend money if you want it to last.
- built engine a must (forged pistons and rods)
- head port-smoothing, polished chambers and de-shrouded valves
- BE oil pump gears
- ATI damper (ill say recommended because I don't have one for 5+ years)
- EFR 6258 and solid manifold (TSE or ArTECH)
- 3" exhaust
- intercooler (precision 650 or 300)
- injectors (FIC 650 or ID 700 or more)
- oil cooler
- programmable ECU (MS)
- solid tune

There is a such thing as too much power. A 200WHP is fun and manageable, a 300WHP miata is crazy fun and a 400WHP miata is stupid crazy. I'm going on 5 years with stupid crazy.
Hope this helps.

Edit: Once you are at that power level, then brakes, suspension, rollbar, seats and harness will keep you alive in case stupidity ensues.

READ THIS. Also buying cheap EBAY stuff for 300+hp is not smart. It wont last. Like it says above...

elior77 08-28-2017 11:59 AM

A very long write in order not to answer anything.

Thanks.

ysleem 08-28-2017 03:30 PM


Originally Posted by elior77 (Post 1436302)
A very long write in order not to answer anything.

Thanks.

My point is that you should know if this is your plan. Just encouraging you to look on mt.net. too much spoon feeding

concealer404 08-28-2017 03:58 PM


Originally Posted by elior77 (Post 1436296)
I got a few questions I hope you guys can answer:

1. Any real reason to get the Gates water pump with the cast impeller ? I got a regular one.
2. Do I need anything more then the stock replacement for the trigger wheel to go with the ATI damper ?

Thanks

The cast impeller is better. That's a decent reason.

Do you want to run a trigger pattern that is other than oem? If so, you need something other than a stock replacement trigger wheel. If not, then no.

codrus 08-28-2017 07:36 PM

The reason for non-stock trigger wheels is that they provide greater accuracy when the engine is accelerating quickly. The ECU only *knows* crank position when a tooth pulse comes through, and for spark/fuel events between tooth pulses it is estimating that position based upon what happened in the past. The more teeth there are, the more data the ECU has, the better the estimate it can make, and the less time it has estimate be syncing back onto a tooth. A stock wheel has 4 teeth, aftermarket wheels often have between 12 and 60 teeth.

In my experience with an MS3, while the NB's 4-tooth stock wheel is less than ideal, the benefits to a 12-1 or more wheel are relatively small. This is much less significant than the error inherent to a belt-driven cam angle sensor like an NA has. I run a stock 4-tooth wheel in order to make it simpler to swap back and forth between stock computer and MS3, and it hasn't proved to be a big deal.

--Ian

18psi 08-28-2017 07:43 PM

Guys which one should I get?
The better one.
Oh ok I got the worse one.
....
...

Lexzar 08-28-2017 08:28 PM

is -275 a negcat record? (that is still an active account)

ysleem 08-28-2017 09:18 PM


Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1436428)
Guys which one should I get?
The better one.
Oh ok I got the worse one.
....
...

How do you guys do it? I very much respect your willingness to help people on here especially answer the same questions. +1 cats from me!

elior77 08-29-2017 08:44 AM


Originally Posted by codrus (Post 1436425)
The reason for non-stock trigger wheels is that they provide greater accuracy when the engine is accelerating quickly. The ECU only *knows* crank position when a tooth pulse comes through, and for spark/fuel events between tooth pulses it is estimating that position based upon what happened in the past. The more teeth there are, the more data the ECU has, the better the estimate it can make, and the less time it has estimate be syncing back onto a tooth. A stock wheel has 4 teeth, aftermarket wheels often have between 12 and 60 teeth.

In my experience with an MS3, while the NB's 4-tooth stock wheel is less than ideal, the benefits to a 12-1 or more wheel are relatively small. This is much less significant than the error inherent to a belt-driven cam angle sensor like an NA has. I run a stock 4-tooth wheel in order to make it simpler to swap back and forth between stock computer and MS3, and it hasn't proved to be a big deal.

--Ian

Thanks man.

elior77 09-07-2017 03:41 AM

https://cimg4.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...1e47f633a9.png

I noticed that I did not see the thing I circled when I disassembled the the head and it is not there when I reassemble it - critical ?

codrus 09-07-2017 05:22 AM

That is a locating dowel, and yes, it's critical. Bolts provide clamping force to hold the head and the block together, but the locating dowels make sure that they are aligned correctly.

--Ian

psyber_0ptix 09-07-2017 08:26 AM

You want those so badly. Buy two. P/N: B630-10-306

elior77 09-07-2017 08:30 AM

Ordered - thanks.

shuiend 09-07-2017 09:15 AM


Originally Posted by codrus (Post 1438120)
That is a locating dowel, and yes, it's critical. Bolts provide clamping force to hold the head and the block together, but the locating dowels make sure that they are aligned correctly.

--Ian

I have put 2 or 3 motors together without those without any issues. You just have to make sure you line up the head perfectly when putting it on. ARP head studs make it much easier.

elior77 09-07-2017 09:21 AM

Thanks shuiend !

shuiend 09-07-2017 09:27 AM


Originally Posted by elior77 (Post 1438150)
Thanks shuiend !

They were not 300+whp monster builds just so you are aware. One was a bone stock 1.6 with 303k miles on it. Other 2 were 1.8's, with one having low boost.


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