Budget Build ~250hp review of parts/services/longevitiy/costs
 

I'm going to try to keep this updated regularly in case anyone is interested. Will try to be as thorough as possible in describing the build and problems I've encountered. This being my first boost build, maybe I will address some concerns that a potential new person might have.

Started with: Bone stock 1990 NA, 170k miles. Included was Tein Street flex coils, FM frame rail braces, a set of new toyo t1r 195/45, and some 15x8 XXR wheels. Price: $1600


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459735966


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459735966


Stuff I acquired immediately thereafter:

-MSPNP2 from Begi
-750cc injectors from Begi
-Wideband setup from begi

total: $1404

I have nothing but great things to say about begi. The parts were fairly expensive (in my opinion) But I immediately received personalized emails containing confirmation of payment, tracking numbers etc. All three packages arrived 1-2 days later with no issues. The high quality on BEGI products was evident, as each thing came with great instructions, flow charts, specifications, invoices etc.



- Garrett M24 locally (150$)

Got this from a friend, found that it had a small amount of shaft play and was unable to free the housing bolts or snap ring to clock it, which made it useless to me. Later sold on ebay for $200 in favor of the CXRacing turbo.



-intercooler kit from cx racing
- turbo manifold from cxracing
-GT2554 rep turbo from cxracing

total: $737

The CXRacing manifold is in my opinion the best deal on the market right now as far as turbo manifolds go. the welds are great, it's reinforced where it should be, and it's thick (don't remember actual ga.) Don't use the supplied gasket. However, the turbo has left quite a bit to be desired, as well as the customer service. The gasket is atrocious, the "5 bolt exhaust flange" is a unique bolt pattern which no other company manufactures, and CXRacing doesn't sell a downpipe for the 1.6 unless you purchase an entire turbo kit, nor do they sell a flange other than the one supplied. The flange supplied doesn't have a spot for the wg to open, so the airflow would be extremely inefficient. CXracing supplies no documentation with any of their products other than that it passed their quality check. This means that in order to figure out what each thread size is on the turbo and anything else they sell you (no bolts/nuts are usually included) you have to take a trip to the local hardware store, where they probably don't have the metric size you were looking for etc. Huge pain in my opinion. It took 5 calls and 3 days of not getting called back to talk to a tech at cxracing who was able to provide me with the thread sizes and specs on the turbo (oil restrictors etc). I had no complaint about the intercooler kit other than the clamps supplied are pretty junky quality but seemed to work fine. I would NOT buy anything from cxracing ever again except a manifold, and even that might be a gamble.


The first thing done was install the coilovers. Getting the front coilovers off was kind of a pain for me and I ended up cutting them off, knowing they would never be used again. There were some great tutorials explaining the most efficient way to go about getting them off if this is not an ideal approach for you. I initially had the car lowered too much, but ended up raising it up in favor or a more fun driving experience.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459735966


Removed the p/s and a/c lines, and associated equipment and did a loop on the ps pump. Stripped interior. Removed the dash, heater core, stereo, etc. Attempted to clean up the wiring some and only include what was necessary.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459735966



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Installed the mspnp2 & the afr guage, and got the car set up and running. No problems there to mention. Very simple installs.

Ordered a cheap $20 switch plate off ebay and wired up a keyless ignition using 3 relays (can find my schematic if anyone is interested)


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459735966


Installed a cheap ebay steering wheel. I wouldn't recommend doing this, and if hadn't made the foolish decision, I would have purchased a more expensive wheel in the $200 dollar range in favor of higher quality. The ebay wheel is the worst quality I have ever seen from an ebay product. Cost was $63.

Ordered Kirkey aluminum seats from Summit. 15 wide, 10 fixed layback angle. I find the seats to be pretty comfortable, as long as you install some foam on the butt part. - total $254. Have yet to fabricate up a bracket for the seats.

Installing all the parts from the cxracing stuff went well. Picked up braided hose locally and ordered fittings for the turbo. The only way I could find to do it with the weird thread on the block's oil outlet was to go from m10x1.5>AN4, to ad AN4 double female line, to an AN4 to 1/8npt female, to an 1/8npt to AN4 .050 restrictor. The problem was finding an AN4 to AN4 restrictor.

This is what's happened over the past 6 months. I have only a few hours a week to really work on the car, so it's been going slow and I haven't taken many pictures. I made this thread as an attempt to start logging work done better and maybe someone else will take interest.


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459735966


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Things that need to be done before the car is really up to snuff and will be followed in this build thread are:

Custom 3" exhaust
welding rear diff
gauge installations
more durable clutch
frame rails
coolant reroute
tuning
etc

Will of course be posting dyno sheets when completed.
Total cost to date everything included: $4,445
Target HP is 250whp.

Comment with suggestions, criticize my work, and let me know what you guys think. Thanks for looking.

The best deal on the market is an MKTurbo setup. CXRacing makes nothing but garbage.

I have to disagree with you, but only with regards to the manifold. If you were to examine it in person, you'd definitely agree it's not that bad! That's part of the reason I started this thread though. Another fellow I know is around 11k into his build using quality parts, so it'll be interesting to me to document the actual longevity of this setup, since I'm sure most people on here will give it a hard time.

Sounds like it will be a fun car.
The 1.6 is going to have to be pushed hard to make 250whp.
I would guess you will need a garrett 2560 or larger.
could maybe pick one up that's Journal bearing for cheap. Will probably need forged rods too
I am not sure what your end use is for the car but if it is the track people sure talk good about the track speed inconel studs for the turbo. You might search ebay for a used cast manifold from fm or begi.
Start slow on boost psi.

You can tell just by handling and looking that the CXracing turbo is of terrible quality. If (when) its life is over, I'll be upgrading to a name brand turbo. There is no specific end use for this car. I'm just doing it as a learning experiment. My goal is to push 250hp and have less than $5000 into the car total and have it's sole purpose being fun to drive. I think it will be a challenge to make the budget though. I did initially look at used cast manifolds from begi/fm, they were a few bucks more than the cxr one. I did quite a bit of reading about the cxr manifold, that it has been improved in the past few years etc and decided I would just give it a shot. Using personal knowledge of welding, machining etc, it does look pretty good. If 250hp kills the 1.6, that's no problem either, and I'm half expecting it. I would like to build the internals at some point anyway.

Your pictures don't work for me. Is this the manifold here? cxracing.com: CXRacing Turbo + Intercooler kit For 89-93 Mazda Miata 1.6L Engine

If so, it's junk. It's not been improved, it's not going to last. Their newer 1.8 manifold seems decent, but it's not been proven out yet.

Yeah the fact that you don't actually post any good pictures of the manifold and downpipe is a bit sad.

Pictures are also not working this morning. Last night they were loading for me, but nothing today.

Also can you get better pictures of the turbo and the sizing on it? I got a CXRacing t3 turbo last week and based on the measurements I took it will spool horribly on a 1.8 and I would be scared to see what it does on a 1.6.

dumb people always pay twice

Interested to see where this goes. For a budget build you're dropping a lot of money in places I'd try to save on and saving in places I'd spend on.

Don't go buy the most expensive frame rails available and spend $350 buying a coolant reroute when you can piece one together much cheaper. Then buy a $89 Stage 7 Ebay clutch which will hold just long enough to explode your welded 1.6 diff.

You can make your own bad choices. Just don't try to make a how-to about it

HAhahahahahhahaha fuckin idiot. Please don't post useless bullshit drivel again. Learn to not be retarded ad come back.

I had a cxracing manifold crack in 3 places on a 4 hour drive.

Was it the newer style? I don't know if they redid the 1.6 along with the 1.8. Still haven't seen pictures of what he got, so I don't want to pass judgment until I see some pictures. Him just saying it is good though is just drivel.

Hey guys, I appreciate the feedback, even the negative comments. I do not appreciate being called an idiot though :) I will definitely be taking some pictures of all the components, as it's coming off to plumb lines and make a a wastegate bracket. I'm not sure if that's the same manifold or not, but it looks similar. All I have to say about the manifold is that having a bachelors in mech. engineering and quite a bit of welding/machining experience, it seems solid. Definitely not super high quality, but there aren't any glaring flaws in the work. I will be completely accepting of the situation if it does crack, and then will upgrade to the appropriate manifold.

Also, I just want to reiterate that this is an experiment, and I am expecting have problems and replace parts if they fail or aren't up to par either way. To Pdexta, the frame rails, coilovers, wheels & tires were all bnib included with the car, and I definitely do not plan on purchasing any sort of kit to reroute coolant. Will get it updated with pics when I get a chance.

When the stock clutch takes a dump, the FM happy meal is what will be replacing it. When the rear diff takes a dump, a welded 1.8 open will be taking it's place.

You mean the bundle of snakes that cord is running? That thing is like $500+ dollars. This guy got his turbo+intercooler kit+manifold for $700. Which means its the junk one.

Yeah I do not have the bundle of snakes. This is the shitty one. There's conflicting information as to whether or not it was updated several years ago. This one in particular is made with 15 gauge 304

I am betting he got this one. The one with the IC is a few hundred more.

good luck with that. I would think a MECHANICAL ENGINEER would know how to spell ENGINEER, but I'm just a dumb person in health care

15 gauge is nothing. Thats less than half the size of the standard schedule 40 used for manifolds.

but bro. he inspected it. he's an enginear

enjunear

No sir. When I was originally planning on using the SR20 turbo, I purchased the manifold individually, which I believe is the one in that kit. Later purchased a separate turbo that was a GT2554 replica, and will be fabbing the dp/exhaust myself using a 3" v band.

Not to be disrespectful, but if you can't recognize that "the_enginear" is a joke, I truly feel sorry for you! :idea: :idea:

Yah I dumb.
Your smart.
don hate doe

Sig'd

So this manifold. Which is the eBay one that people on here have been cracking for years. You say you are going to weld up your own dp and exhaust. If you can do all that then why on earth are you not just building your own manifold. It costs about $125 in supplies to build your own log manifold that will last a hell of a lot longer then that cxracing one.

I have personally posted links and info on here on where to buy everything and what you need to make an exact copy of my MKTurbo setup. There are even a few people who have copied my shit exactly and I am 100% fine with it.

Because thats not shiny enough.

I mean if he spends enough time with a polisher he might be able to make it shiny like this.
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459307134

Still waiting for someone to polish the TSE manifold.

I'm not quite comfortable enough with my fabbing skills to do a manifold. The downpipe and everything else I've done in the past and am pretty comfortable with. If it cracks, I'll replace it with a better one. I really would like to see for myself that it's a piece of shit, that's all.

Where is Jeffbucc when you need him. I could send my TSE manifold out for a good polishing.

Want me to send you some of my feces? Then you can tell if its really shit. Or you can just take my word that it is shit.

Fair enough. You can't see it, but from where the experienced members of this forum are sitting, you're basically telling us that you want to touch the hot stove just to see if it's hot for yourself. We all know it's hot, but if you want to touch it anyway, we'll gladly let you do it. :party:

I have a lot of respect for the knowledge and experience you guys have with our cars. But regardless, I'm going to do things they way I want the first time. I will take care of it if they fail. And I'm sure things will fail :)

Where did you receive your Bachelors from?













I want to make sore I don't hire anyone from there...or send my kids there.

make sure to take lots of pictures :)

University of Maine - Orono. I doubt you'll ever be in a position to hire anyone with an engineering degree. I guess it's a good thing there is no shortage of jobs in industry as I don't seem to be making a good reputation for myself on the miata forum. God forbid.

Here are some pictures of the welds on the IC piping and the mani. The welds are much more telling now that they have had some heat applied to them. Not great quality, but could be a lot worse. I have no information whatsoever to provide on the turbo, except the thread sizes and that it is a gt2554 replica. The turbo has already developed some blowby (mostly on the exhaust side, some on intake side) after a 5 minute low-rpm drive, so I suspect it'll be getting replaced rather quickly.


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lol that's the same piece of trash manifold that has cracked multiple times over on lots of n00b's cars

dude, no one is going to physically stop you from using garbage parts, and no one is mad/upset either.

if anything, it's amusing. you seem to be chill enough to admit you're making bad decisions, so keep on truckin, and just post lots of pictures when it cracks so the next guy learns that it doesn't pay to be stubborn, and that you're not discovering anything new, so really just pissing away cash.

if you actually did your homework, you'd have found that another manifold, that is also dirt cheap, actually has a somewhat decent reputation of actually working for some time, and woulda got that one.

oh well

People do seem to be pretty pissed at my stubbornness :p But will do! ETA for this build to be 100% finished is about a month. After that, I'll just be keeping track of problems, mileage on failed parts,and doing an anlysis on what I could have saved by buying quality parts originally, etc. If it amounts to anything surprising, I think other people doing their first miata build will find the information useful, instead of people just immediately shitting on them for not buying the best quality.

ebay steering wheel - Can you bend it?

weld rear diff - Welding a oem 1.6 diff.... you doin doriftos bro?

brand of injectors? wideband setup?

thing is, you're like the 10th guy to do that. proper research would uncover the previous attempts and documentation.

but moar info is always gooadear right? :D

check this out, it took me literally 5 seconds to find:


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459801559


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459801559


https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459801559

Guess again...hiring one right now. I can send you the job listing if you like. Have to interview three candidates tomorrow.

Yep, mine cracked like the last picture Vlad posted.

Luke, you ever hire EE's?

18 psi - I did take a look at failure posts before ordering. Also found some posts on ht/clubroadster saying they had 5-10k with no cracks.



ebay steering wheel - does not bend. feels f***ing horrible in your hand (raised seam on backside from manufacturing). Hub is cast aluminum that is barely metal. Threads on the hub were not tapped deep enough for the wheel to be mounted with the supplied bolts. Had to redrill/retap. Horn button is like an xbox d-pad, no lateral support and can't be pressed from anywhere except the center to actually make contact. If i were to get in an accident with this wheel, I am fairly certain it would shatter and be left with sharp edges. Not safe, and I will definitely be replacing it pretty soon.

injectors - pnp flow matched EV14 750cc ordered from BEGI

wideband - innovative wideband with LC-2 controller, pnp also ordered from BEGI.

These things are all available on ebay for a few bucks cheaper, but in this instance I was interested in having good customer support in case of DOA electronics.

oh you poor thing, you just keep on digging when you hit the ground don't you
:laugh:

admitting to read clubretardster is like.......I don't even know. its the end

also LOL @ thinking you'll get good support.

you just keep striking out :giggle:

Ah. Well my apologies. I thought it would be appropriate to return the personal attack :) It might not be apparent, but I would say we're both educated individuals.

HAHAHA. I was actually waiting for your reply on that one. I've seen people post about cr on here before. It never goes well. Maybe if you guys weren't such assholes I would be more inclined to dig through the information? :p Just kidding. There is some good info on there once in a while, seriously.

Maybe after my car is faster than all of yours for half the price, I will add some 15x10s and see how low I can get too? :rofl:

I read nothing but good stuff about the customer support from begi, so in that case there must actually be something I'm not aware of.

https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459802655

Buying things twice is not how you get a fast car for cheap...

So, Five-0 injectors possibly.

Mine (460cc) seem ok, not sure how yours will be when you get to tuning.

They're a helluva lot better than the RCs I had when I bought the car.


This image here... shows the thickness of that manifold.

When you tap it with a screw driver does it sounds tinny?
https://www.miataturbo.net/attachmen...ine=1459801559

That was a joke regarding the shit everyone was giving me for having to buy stuff twice... I guess nobody understands my trolling attempts. I'm trying to hit 250 for under $5000, but am in no way opposed to spending however much money it requires to build the car reliably in the end. This is my personal experiment because I'm a stupid, uneducated, dumb son of a bitch. Rite bro?

I love lamp

Can't troll teh trolls bruh :eggplant:

And with a welded 1.6l diff in your plan, you're already questionable :party:

Tinny isn't how I would describe it. It definitely sounds thinner than other manifolds I have used in the past. The actual thickness of my specific manifold seems to be uniformly .065-.067" checked at random spots. True 15 ga, which is already relatviely thin, would be .072". As far as the injectors go, they ran the car great NA, haven't done any serious tuning under boost.

Yeah well the welded 1.6 diff is absolutely not what I want. Have read they're only good to around 160-170 rwhp? Whatever. I will spend the money when I have to, and take the risk of shocking the drivetrain. If the tranny ends up needing to be replaced, I will just put a 6 speed in. Apparently it's not too much of a problem other than a starter bolt.

They often fail at stock power.

I don't think you have to worry about making enough torque to break the transmission.

I think youre right, since I expect good customer service from begi, my manifold is going to crack, car is too low, looked at clubroaster once, don't know how to tune, etc.

On a serious note though, I am expecting the diff to fail almost immediately whether it's due to power or just mechanical wear. I guess we'll see about the tranny

your tranny wont fail
will take much shock loading

the transmission though..........