f20c engine conversion - Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.

Welcome to Miataturbo.net   Members
 


Build Threads Building a motor? Post the progress here.

Reply
 
 
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 01-10-2010, 07:50 PM   #1
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver
Posts: 909
Total Cats: 14
Default f20c engine conversion

At the request of some members I have started this thread to detail the engine conversion I performed on my 91 Miata.

I have been driving Miatas for the past 10 years and absolutely love the cars. The one short coming as most of us know is power. I thought about FI of the Miata power plant but decided I wanted something different than just another turbo charged Miata. **No offense intended to any of the members of this web site, as I respect all that has been accomplished, and through your work, now realize just what a capable mill the Miata engine is. I thought about the V-8 route but after visiting Miata.net's engine conversion forum, I realized there are quite a few V-8 conversions out there. So many in fact, that there are 3 or 4 companies that make kits for V-8 conversions. No thank you, I wanted something original. That is what led me to the Honda f20c; no kit for this conversion I would need to do it all on my own!

I bought my 91 on eBay for $1300 with a hardtop; it was a non-running automatic car. I got the car running and put a 5spd in it and drove it for 5 years before starting the conversion.

Now, onto the fun stuff!! The first thing needed after brainstorming the project? An engine and transmission of course! After countless hours of watching eBay and Craigslist I settled on an engine and transmission located in Las Vegas. The carfax stated salvage title issued at 10, 358 miles. Being a student and cash strapped, I decided to drive out and pick the engine up myself. The transportation of choice? Not my truck; it uses too much gas, nope I used my trusty old 1988 Acura Legend; which has since been sold to a friend. Take out the passenger seat and off to Vegas, hell its only 11 hours one way and I had the whole weekend off. The result, mission accomplished transmission in the back seat, engine on the floor. Vegas and back in 26 clock hours!
hingstonwm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 07:58 PM   #2
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver
Posts: 909
Total Cats: 14
Default

Here is the engine and transmission. the engine is taller and about 1.5 inches longer than the stock engine. Aluminum block and head, I never weighed it but my car only weighs 2400 pounds with me in it, and the hardtop.

[IMG][/IMG][

IMG]Name:  DSCF1786.jpg
Views: 1105
Size:  99.0 KB[/IMG]
hingstonwm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 07:59 PM   #3
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,682
Total Cats: 216
Default

fixed

edit: delete this shiz

Last edited by Full_Tilt_Boogie; 01-10-2010 at 08:30 PM.
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 08:26 PM   #4
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,163
Total Cats: 2,573
Default

should be a good thread. Please post way more pictures
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 08:28 PM   #5
Elite Member
iTrader: (17)
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Fort Myers, FL
Posts: 2,790
Total Cats: 128
Default

Nice man, so is it in the car now? Any pics of the car together? I'm sure you've probably seen this thread but it's definitely an interesting read: S2KI - S2000 Forums -> Miata + S2000 = M2000?
pdexta is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 09:48 PM   #6
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver
Posts: 909
Total Cats: 14
Default

[/QUOTE]I'm sure you've probably seen this thread but it's definitely an interesting read: S2KI - S2000 Forums -> Miata + S2000 = M2000?[/QUOTE]


Yes, I looked at his build. The paint job is incredible, but to me the rest of his build left me saying why didn't they do "X". I must admit though, they did a good job documenting the build, which gave me insight on my solutions to engineering obstacles

Here is an example of what I am talking about. Because the rack has to be moved due to the front sump oil pan, a new rack mount must be fabricated. The first picture is their solution, the second picture is mine. I show this not to bash his build but to illustrate how his willingness to share allowed me to critique, and come up with what I consider a better solution. It is always easier to come up with good ideas after you have seen the problem!

Their solution to rack mount (I don't care for all the shims)
Name:  engine132.jpg
Views: 1107
Size:  24.3 KB

My solution (simple and strong!)
Name:  P1010064.jpg
Views: 1273
Size:  92.3 KB

Last edited by hingstonwm; 01-10-2010 at 11:36 PM.
hingstonwm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 09:52 PM   #7
Murderator
iTrader: (76)
 
18psi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 36,163
Total Cats: 2,573
Default

your way>>>>>>>>>>>those metal pieces of crap he's using
18psi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 09:54 PM   #8
Elite Member
iTrader: (1)
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 4,682
Total Cats: 216
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hingstonwm View Post
Their solution to rack mount (I don't care for all the shims)


My solution (simple and strong!)
Beautiful work.

Im hoping that those shims were just used for mocking it up before they fabricated something proper, if not
Full_Tilt_Boogie is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 10:54 PM   #9
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver
Posts: 909
Total Cats: 14
Default

The first issue, how do you fit a front sump engine into a k-member designed for a rear sump engine? Answer, heavy modification.

Name:  DSCF1806.jpg
Views: 1213
Size:  123.4 KB
Index bar, this makes sure that there is no movement of the separate sections of k-member after the center section is cut out to make room for the front sump.

The k-member is a hybrid using factory part that is cut then reinforced with 1.5 inch .120 wall DOM tubing. Besides strength the tubing forms the frame work for the skid plate that protects the oil pan. The lowest point of the car is the bottom of the tubing which is .75 inches lower than the oil pan. Additionally a relief was fabbed into the right side k-member to create extra clearance for the exhaust. The tubing also serves as a mounting point for the steering rack (shown in an earlier post)

Name:  P1010060.jpg
Views: 1102
Size:  72.1 KB
Drain plug opening in skid plate (1/8” steel plate)

Name:  P1010051.jpg
Views: 1109
Size:  118.7 KB
Tubing in place waiting to be tacked

Name:  P1010053.jpg
Views: 1122
Size:  81.1 KB
Reinforcing for the tube frame

Name:  DSCF1811.jpg
Views: 1097
Size:  99.1 KB
Going in, first sparks!


With this out there is room for the oil pan

Name:  P1010059.jpg
Views: 1101
Size:  108.8 KB
Boxed in cuts k-member note the elongated slot for the engine mount stud. Doing this keeps you from fighting to get the engine home

Name:  P1010056-3.jpg
Views: 1107
Size:  95.5 KB
Look closely and you will notice that the rack is not mounted square OOOOPS. I measured off of the engine instead of the face of the k-member when I mounted this the first time. (the oil pan is not in a flat plane across its face). Had to do it a second time, this kind of stuff happens once in a while. At least I noticed it before I tried to drive the car.

Name:  P1010055.jpg
Views: 1107
Size:  87.6 KB
A work in progress

Name:  P1010054-1.jpg
Views: 1121
Size:  94.5 KB

Name:  P1010058-1.jpg
Views: 1096
Size:  90.6 KB
I moved the mounting point up to the top of the landing for the engine mounts, this needed to be done in order to use stock miata engine mount rubbers.
Name:  P1010079.jpg
Views: 1115
Size:  91.1 KB
While I was doing this I had a huge brainstorm!! We have all struggled at one time or another when replacing a Miata engine with getting the stud on the engine mount into the hole in the k-member then getting the other side to fall into the slot. Well if you elongate the holes so they day light on the horizontal plane the problem is solved. I like to work smarter not harder

Name:  P1010051-1.jpg
Views: 1112
Size:  93.1 KB
A couple of shots of the completed k-member

Name:  P1010066-1.jpg
Views: 1102
Size:  101.0 KB
Notice the relief on the right side of k-member for exhaust clearance

Will have more later!! Any thoughts or comments are welcome.

Last edited by hingstonwm; 01-10-2010 at 11:13 PM.
hingstonwm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 10:59 PM   #10
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
kotomile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 7,578
Total Cats: 40
Default

Looks good man, that first steering rack pic is scary.
kotomile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 11:21 PM   #11
Cpt. Slow
iTrader: (25)
 
curly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Oregon City, OR
Posts: 12,105
Total Cats: 518
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Full_Tilt_Boogie View Post
Beautiful work.

Im hoping that those shims were just used for mocking it up before they fabricated something proper, if not
Nope. There's a picture somewhere of him welding them all together and painting them black. So that's more or less his final "design". A big block of Aluminum with two holes in it would of been much better in my mind, if you're not willing to use hingstonwm's method.
curly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 11:24 PM   #12
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver
Posts: 909
Total Cats: 14
Default

kotomile you are right. when I first noticed it I thought, how in the hell did I get that so wrong and not notice it? Then once I thought about it I had a moment.

I will support the engine and drop the k member when I do the plumbing for the oil return line on the turbo. When I have it down I will pull the control arms, and have it sand blasted and powder coated. I plan on doing another one of these conversions and leaving the engine normally aspirated and using it as a daily driver. When the time comes for that conversion I will most likely purchase a FM tubular k-member to use on the hot rod and put this k-member on the daily driver.
hingstonwm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 11:33 PM   #13
Tour de Franzia
iTrader: (6)
 
hustler's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Republic of Dallas
Posts: 29,114
Total Cats: 351
Default

I thought we had the same gearbox as the s2k...I guess its just the same gear stack instead.
hustler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 11:39 PM   #14
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver
Posts: 909
Total Cats: 14
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I thought we had the same gearbox as the s2k...I guess its just the same gear stack instead.

The 1.8 through NB cars have the same ring and pinion.
hingstonwm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 11:42 PM   #15
Senior Member
iTrader: (8)
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 758
Total Cats: 5
Default

You have probably already thought of this, but make sure you get some heat shielding over the wiring here since the exhaust is running on the passenger side instead of the driver side. Fantastic work so far, you make me want to get my welder back now from my buddy who has been borrowing it for a few months just so I can learn how to use it.

Name:  P1010066-1.jpg
Views: 1100
Size:  101.0 KB
boileralum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-10-2010, 11:45 PM   #16
Elite Member
iTrader: (24)
 
kotomile's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Monterey, CA
Posts: 7,578
Total Cats: 40
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by hingstonwm View Post
kotomile you are right. when I first noticed it I thought, how in the hell did I get that so wrong and not notice it? Then once I thought about it I had a moment.
I was talking about the stack of spacers, man, not anything you fabbed.
kotomile is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 12:03 AM   #17
Senior Member
Thread Starter
iTrader: (2)
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Denver
Posts: 909
Total Cats: 14
Default

[QUOTE=boileralum;506548]You have probably already thought of this, but make sure you get some heat shielding over the wiring here since the exhaust is running on the passenger side instead of the driver side. Fantastic work so far, you make me want to get my welder back now from my buddy who has been borrowing it for a few months just so I can learn how to use it.

On a side note could you post some pics of your wheel and tire package? I am thinking about going with the same setup on my car


Already taken care of. I will get into the wiring in a later post! Oh yeah and the movemnet of all the fuel lines to the other side as well.

Last edited by hingstonwm; 01-11-2010 at 02:14 AM.
hingstonwm is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 02:45 AM   #18
Elite Member
iTrader: (17)
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posts: 2,831
Total Cats: 0
Default

suscribed!


great fab work in for more pics
WonTon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 05:44 AM   #19
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 125
Total Cats: 0
Default

Excellent engineering and handy work! We need vids of the car screaming along when your done aswell!
DMRider_10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-11-2010, 09:01 AM   #20
Newb
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Posts: 17
Total Cats: 1
Default

Nice work, would love to see some vids of this beast.
rxmx is offline   Reply With Quote
 
 
Reply

Related Topics
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Project Gemini - Turbo Civic on the Cheap Full_Tilt_Boogie Build Threads 57 07-19-2017 05:11 PM
Buzzing from driver side of engine bay? (MS3 install) nick470 MEGAsquirt 7 06-16-2017 02:53 PM
Changing from 460cc to flow force 610cc in diypnp 90 Turbo MEGAsquirt 19 10-19-2015 04:23 PM
Expected intake temps on the track? tazswing Race Prep 20 10-03-2015 12:04 PM


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:28 PM.