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Old 03-30-2012, 06:36 PM   #1661
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shuiend View Post
Mine does that randomly also. It all started spring 2011 when I was at the dyno day with Braineack. He was like what does this single button on the temp gauge do? He then started pressing it changing ----. After that it would also do the read way off. Back in February sometime it just randomly started working again. Nothing at all changed. As far as I can tell with working with tech support it has something to do with how the temp sensor is grounded. They will tell you to take the wire that is running to the temp sensor and touch it to the metal casing around the gauge to see if the temps go up to somewhere in the 300's. If so then the gauge is fine, and it is something with the sensor grounding.

When it does work fine it is within 10 degrees of what TS reads my temps as.
When I ground it at the thermocouple gnd, it goes HI, so I'm going to get a resistor. He told if worse comes to worse, he'll change the table in the firmware and send it back. Its nice when you get good customer service and the guy working there gives you his cell and home email, lol. Once we get this fixed, I may switch ever gauge to a VEI aside from the tach. I'm going to use my old gauge for trans temp now.
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Old 03-31-2012, 06:02 PM   #1662
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Help me diagnose my water temp sender problems. I have a VEI water temp gauge and an NA temp sender for the computer. The EFI computer's water temp sender is in the back of the head in a water jacket; the VEI gauge sender in the NPT plug location on the back of the head. I have a temp strip that activates the 190*f indicator.

I see ~160*f on the VEI gauge when Tuner Studio says 195*f. I bought a 180ohm 2% resistor to test the VEI gauge/meter and it comes out 6* high at 186 (suggested test from VEI), I think that's close enough to rule out a bad meter and sender on that side. So I guess the other variables are a bad calibration on my CLT sensor in MT or something far more sinister. I noticed that every time I take the gauge sender out of the back of the head, no water drips out. This tells me there is air in the system and possibly a flaw in my ghetto coolant reroute, and without water on the gauge sender, I'm not seeing true water temps.

See how high my return pipe is on the passenger side?

Could this be the problem? What do you guys think?
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Old 03-31-2012, 06:19 PM   #1663
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My thermfactor.inc:
Quote:
; Generated using EasyTherm4.exe
;
; Coolant Thermistor Comment Field
;
; File generated for use with stock 2490 ohm resistor at R7
;
; Steinhart-Hart coefficients: A= 2.280871E-03 B=5.340109E-05 C= 1.264782E-06
;
; Input Data: Temp, degF Resistance
; -4 16200
; 86 2450
; 176 320

Last edited by hustler; 03-31-2012 at 06:49 PM.
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Old 03-31-2012, 07:35 PM   #1664
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By return pipe, you mean return to radiator, correct? Maybe a pic of the back of a '99 head to show us exactly where your senders are. That pipe is higher than mine and most others I've seen, but I'm not sure how that would be an issue. Unless your vei sender is at the top.
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Old 03-31-2012, 10:49 PM   #1665
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I just shot temps with a Craftsman laser thermometer after a thermostat cycle. Black hose coming out of the thermostat is 170*f, MS says 190*f, gauge says 160*f the first time. Which one is right? How can I really narrow this down?
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Old 03-31-2012, 10:52 PM   #1666
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What do your temp strips read?
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:00 PM   #1667
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Also, doesn't metal conduct heat better than the rubber hose coming out of the thermostat? What does your metal reroute pipe temp at with the laser? Do you have a thermocouple to verify the laser's temps with? I would try a few different methods of measuring temps (thermocouple, temp strips, laser thermometer, gauge, MS). See which two or three are reading the same and assume that is the correct temp.
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:02 PM   #1668
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palmtree View Post
Also, doesn't metal conduct heat better than the rubber hose coming out of the thermostat? What does your metal reroute pipe temp at with the laser? Do you have a thermocouple to verify the laser's temps with? I would try a few different methods of measuring temps (thermocouple, temp strips, laser thermometer, gauge, MS). See which two or three are reading the same and assume that is the correct temp.
When I measure off the metal, I get whacked-out numbers, probably because its reflective. I'll go throw a temp-strip on there because I suspect those are the most accurate of the bunch.
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:10 PM   #1669
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
I just shot temps with a Craftsman laser thermometer after a thermostat cycle. Black hose coming out of the thermostat is 170*f, MS says 190*f, gauge says 160*f the first time. Which one is right? How can I really narrow this down?
Boil some water and use the craftsman thermometer to see the temp, compare that to the boiling temp of water, which depends on elevation but is 212* F at sea level (100* C).

Make a known known.
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:26 PM   #1670
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Or just put ice in water. Should read 32* F. That's how we calibrated thermometers in restaurants.
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Old 03-31-2012, 11:46 PM
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:31 AM   #1671
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i like the ice water and boiling water test. if you can get boiling water to your car.
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:41 AM   #1672
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Put a piece of masking tape on the metal pipe for the laser to read.
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Old 04-01-2012, 01:46 AM   #1673
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Quote:
Originally Posted by y8s View Post
i like the ice water and boiling water test. if you can get boiling water to your car.
To be fair to shearhead, he mentioned it to check the accuracy of the craftsman infrared thermometer, although it would be great if Hustler could get His temp senders in some frozen/boiling water.
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Old 04-01-2012, 01:51 AM   #1674
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Originally Posted by curly View Post
To be fair to shearhead, he mentioned it to check the accuracy of the craftsman infrared thermometer, although it would be great if Hustler could get His temp senders in some frozen/boiling water.
yeay me
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:51 AM   #1675
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Alright, boiling water is 210-214 on my lay-zer.

My fancy type gauge sender is under that little blue fitting, in the back of the head in, just like on a 1.6.

Here is my return pipe, it's pretty high:

I had to get it that high because the MS CLT sensor is right next to the water-neck.

This picture is just bauce and shows the relative height of the return pipe.


Known knowns:
  • Laser thermo is accurate enough that my gauge should match
  • VEI sender is supposed to show 185*f with a 180 ohm resistor, it does
  • The car runs the same AFRs in the cold and hot
  • Temp strips show that my car is not melting-down on the track
Known unknowns:
  • What part of the pipe should I shoot the laser at? Rubber or metal? Thermostat housings, rubber return pipes, metal return pipes, radiator?
  • Since no water runs out of the head when I pull the sender, does that mean I have air in the system? Could this cause a variance 30* variance in sensors?
  • Do I need to run Easytherm again and adjust the firmware for my CLT sensor since we have this clear variance?
  • Should I re-engineer the water return to go lower?
Unknown unknowns:
  • See Donald Rumsfeld
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Old 04-01-2012, 09:56 AM   #1676
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Quote:
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To be fair to shearhead, he mentioned it to check the accuracy of the craftsman infrared thermometer, although it would be great if Hustler could get His temp senders in some frozen/boiling water.
I can't take the sensors out today for a few reasons. They are a bitch to get to and I did legs yesterday and I'm having trouble walking today, I need to work on a window regulator in the white car, and I need to put my RB header in the white car.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:00 AM   #1677
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...or maybe it's time for a little header tank I can put in the rain/windsheild area.
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Old 04-01-2012, 10:52 AM   #1678
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For a non-contact thermostat, you want to aim at a non-shiny part that is metal. Shiny or rubber will give slightly different reading due to reflectivity and/or insulating properties.

No water coming out, you should probably bleed it.

No idea on the rest of it.
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Old 04-01-2012, 12:10 PM   #1679
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Why's it high? Just so you can use that bolt on the intake manifold or does the thermostat cover point upwards.

I'd replace all that with the GM hose anyways. I know you bitch about it cause it's not metal, but I'd rather have all rubber than two extra leak points. What's that thing T'ing off of it near the back? Do you have a "racer" reroute?

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Old 04-01-2012, 12:11 PM   #1680
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hustler View Post
...or maybe it's time for a little header tank I can put in the rain/windsheild area.
Either that or a ventable/fillable splice.

I think that you have air.

http://www.streetperformance.com/m/c...se-filler.html
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