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Old 06-30-2010, 09:34 PM   #81
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I'm a mildly retarded "SEMI FLUSH" gearhead that knows the car in/out cause I'm way too jewish to pay someone else for their knowledge

I'm a walking/talking self contradicting middle ground
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:42 AM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 18psi View Post
Its called "Learning View"
Got it, and it's running.

Sadly, it will not let me clear DTCs without resetting the whole ECU including all learned parameters. Surely there must be some software application out there which gives me functionality at least equal to a $50 handheld code-scanner?


Sidebar: This application should serve as a lesson to software developers everywhere. This is a perfectly useful application that runs natively under Win32, and yet it is entirely monolithic and fits into a mere 1.7 megabytes. There is no installer, no registry entries, no libraries, no runtime environments, no bloat. You click on the executable, and it runs. Remember when all software worked like that?


Quote:
If you want to go speed density and get rid of a bunch of wiring/motors get an AEM EMS. It is one of the better ecu's for subaru and makes the Hydra look like a box of turds.
I'm not married to the speed-density idea, particularly not for $1,820. Of course, the fact that I can relocate the MAF sensor element into a new tube does somewhat redeem it.




Something else just occurred to me. The Greddy V-manage is compatible with AVCS, and at $500, I can buy one of those plus an MS3 for half the cost of the AEM box, assuming the V-manage can stand alone (which is, I admit, a big if.)

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm...


Forest of string-tags:





The bulkhead harness is coming along nicely. Tomorrow- the fuel system electronics.
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Old 07-01-2010, 09:10 AM   #83
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I wish I had the patience to go through and label every single wire like that when I'm doing a swap
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Old 07-01-2010, 10:15 AM   #84
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I'd be going postal by that point.
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Old 07-01-2010, 01:06 PM   #85
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Beer helps.

It's interesting to compare the quality of the factory manual for this car to those of the Mazda. In some ways, it's quite good. For example, here's the layout diagram for the harness pictured above:



The next two pages list every one of those connectors, by number, and then give you the pin count, the color of the shell, the quadrant that it's in, and what it mates to. So for instance, it tells me that B100 is a blue 20 pin connector located in area B-2 which plugs into connector F2 (part of the front harness) and that connector is also blue. So all of those tags just have the B number on them, along with a quick note such as "B309, Throttle Relay."


Here's a fun fact:



That's the crankshaft sensor on top, and the trigger to the #1 ignition coil on the bottom. EE's: note the timescale, 10ms/div.

The dwell on this thing is 8ms?!

I gotta get in there with my current probe this evening and check that out...
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Old 07-01-2010, 01:21 PM   #86
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LOL

Joe's discovering more complex cars than a miata...YAY.
In for epic build
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:14 PM   #87
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Joe's discovering more complex cars than a miata...YAY.
In for epic build
Thanks, now tell me where the heck I can find a software tool to clear DTCs without resetting the whole ECU.

Found out something interesting. The reason I couldn't find the cruise control module is because there isn't one. Should have realized that from the fact that there's no cruise control actuator under the hood, because of course there's no throttle cable. Cruise is simply a function of the main ECU.

Neat.
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:17 PM   #88
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ecuexplorer is teh only other program I know of for subaru's that clears codes and it resets ecu as well.

why are you so concerned about resetting ecu? you can tweak IAM to reach maximum value with romraider so resetting the ecu will affect the car for all of 10 seconds til it goes back to learned values.
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:20 PM   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Perez View Post
Thanks, now tell me where the heck I can find a software tool to clear DTCs without resetting the whole ECU.

Found out something interesting. The reason I couldn't find the cruise control module is because there isn't one. Should have realized that from the fact that there's no cruise control actuator under the hood, because of course there's no throttle cable. Cruise is simply a function of the main ECU.

Neat.
That made 100% sense to me when I found that out with my own DD. Why have an extra throttle cable and mechanism, when you can just put the actuator on the side of the throttle body. And once that's done, why have a throttle cable, when you can just let the driver control the CC actuator. And why have a separate computer when the CC "brains" could be shoved into the rest of the ECU. That was the invention of the drive by wire throttle. How they got to drive by wire steering, I'll never know. Maybe Mythbusters started that trend.
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:32 PM   #90
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That made 100% sense to me when I found that out with my own DD. Why have an extra throttle cable and mechanism, when you can just put the actuator on the side of the throttle body.
Actually, there isn't even a separate actuator for cruise, for the same reason there's no idle control valve. Since the throttle plate itself is already under ECU control, they just do everything with the main throttle motor.


Quote:
How they got to drive by wire steering, I'll never know. Maybe Mythbusters started that trend.
Has DBW steering actually been implemented in anything? I can think of few things worse (and more pointless) than being totally decoupled from the steering rack.
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:49 PM   #91
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This is impressive and fun to follow! Best of luck to you, I've had the joy of swapping an entire chassis harness into another car and it was a real hoot. My hands would keep me awake at night aching. You are right on when it comes to the superiority of other make's factory service manuals. A mildly competent wrencher could use the DSM manual and get most any job done with good results. Problem is, most folks choose not to reference it.

The harness location image you posted is superb and essential with a project like this.
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Old 07-01-2010, 02:56 PM   #92
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Quote:
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Has DBW steering actually been implemented in anything? I can think of few things worse (and more pointless) than being totally decoupled from the steering rack.
"Steer by wire: This is currently used in electric forklifts and stockpickers and some tractors[1]. Its implementation in road vehicles is limited by concerns over reliability although it has been demonstrated in several concept vehicles such as ThyssenKrupp Presta Steering's Mercedes-Benz Unimog, General Motors' Hy-wire and Sequel and the Mazda Ryuga. A rear wheel SbW system by Delphi called Quadrasteer is used on some pickup trucks but has had limited commercial success."
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Old 07-01-2010, 11:22 PM   #93
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You are right on when it comes to the superiority of other make's factory service manuals. A mildly competent wrencher could use the DSM manual and get most any job done with good results. Problem is, most folks choose not to reference it.
Wait, Subaru is considered part of DSM?

As to the manuals, like anything there's good and bad. One thing in particular that I like about the Mazda manuals is that they tend to cram a lot more stuff onto one page. That may seem weird, but take the engine electronics for instance. On the 2000 FSM (the latest one I have) the whole engine control system fits onto three pages. On the Forester manual, that section is eleven pages. It's not that the Forester has significantly more wiring on the engine, but it's much more spread out, and individual lines commonly cross over multiple, and often non-consecutive pages. It's a lot like the Toyota manuals in this regard, and to me, it makes it harder to follow a signal from a systemic point of view.

They also don't seem to have a comprehensive index of all of the Common Connectors (those which conjoin two harnesses) in a single place- they're all spread out across various sections, and there are some Common Connectors for which I've never found a diagram- I'm having to make educated guesses about which pin is which my referencing wire colors. Kind of annoying.

They do have a reasonably decent set of signal waveforms printed, though again, they're spread out all over the DTC book, which is 271 pages long. (The comprehensive FSM for this car spans a total of seven books.) In the NB manuals, all of the important graphs and waveforms are right there in one place, in the Control Systems chapter.

I guess what I'm saying is that, for me, it's harder to find what I'm looking for in the Subaru manuals, and there's a lot of duplication. There are, for instance, two separate sets of DTC information, one in the DTC book, and another in the Engine book. They cover essentially the same information, but they are not even close to identical.

Ah well, enough bitching.


I re-scoped the ignition this evening, as a previous measurement had led me to believe that the coils were dwelling for 8ms. I still have utterly no idea why I was seeing that, and I don't think I screwed anything up, but I didn't trust it. Turns out that they dwell for about 4.8ms at idle, slightly less at higher revs, and self-limit (at 9A) after just 3ms. That's a lot more reasonable. It's actually a very pretty current profile. Below, trace #2 is coil primary current, scaled to 10mV = 1A, at 20mV/div. Horizontal is 1ms/div, trace #1 is the trigger:




Still haven't dug into the FPC. I had to cobble together a tee fitting for the fuel line, and I'm waiting for the sealant to dry.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Nagase View Post
"Steer by wire: This is currently used in electric forklifts and stockpickers and some tractors[1]. Its implementation in road vehicles is limited by concerns over reliability although it has been demonstrated in several concept vehicles such as ThyssenKrupp Presta Steering's Mercedes-Benz Unimog, General Motors' Hy-wire and Sequel and the Mazda Ryuga. A rear wheel SbW system by Delphi called Quadrasteer is used on some pickup trucks but has had limited commercial success."
Thank you, Mr. Wikipedia.
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Old 07-01-2010, 11:37 PM   #94
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I think you mean Miss Wikipedia.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:10 PM   #95
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Chapter 3: Separation Anxiety


An uneasy silence settled over the garage. It hung implacably in the air, as substantial and unmoving as the the engine which dangled limply from a chain between them.

"What," asked the taller one, his eyes unmoving from their target, "is that?"

It was not so much a question as a disbelieving utterance of his subconscious, as he struggled to comprehend the thing which hung before him, taunting him, almost daring him to accept the incongruity of it all.

"The turbo?" asked his companion at last, tentatively drawing a sip of beer in an effort to reattach some semblance of reality to the situation. "Big hunk of iron with a spinny bit in the middle?"

"Yes," the first man replied, "with emphasis being laid generally upon the word Big."






In all honesty, this is almost laughable. Granted, the factory setup on this engine is pretty low boost (6 or 7 PSI, IIRC) but I'd have expected something slightly larger on a 2.5L engine. On the plus side, I'm guessing that this little guy probably spools up at idle.







It would also appear to be in need of a rebuild. There's no discernible shaft play, but the inside of the compressor had a fair bit of oil sitting in it, as did the rest of the intake tract. So now I face a dilemma. Stick to my original plan of keeping the engine more or less stock with a simple rebuild, or cave to the pressure, stick a Chinacharger on it, and probably wind up having to re-tune dramatically while at the same time ending up making more power than my little transaxle can withstand.

Decisions, decisions...


I also figured out why I'd been getting a DTC for P0031 "Front O2 sensor low input." I'd been hoping that maybe a wire had gotten crushed or torn in the accident. Turns out that the front O2 sensor tried to occupy the same space as mother earth while the vehicle was flipping end over end. The result? Earth: 1, O2 sensor: 0.



Now, the rub: turns out that this sucker is a wideband. Anybody care to guess how much a replacement costs?

Also, an interesting tidbit: We're all very paranoid about where we place wideband sensors, right? This bad boy is actually installed in the right side manifold, just inches from the odd cylinder exhaust ports, and before the turbo!
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Old 07-05-2010, 07:56 PM   #96
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I'm going to guess $285 for the WB replacement.

And to make my previous statement more clear, I believe manufactures put the cruise control actuator on the throttle body before using the same actuator to control the throttle from the gas pedal. It's annoying on my DD cause I can't rev it like a juvenile deliquent from under the hood.
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Old 07-05-2010, 08:05 PM   #97
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Ohhhh, so its a human cloner?
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:23 PM   #98
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That td04 spools quick indeed. Here it is on my 06 which was stock + my tune:





That o2 sensor is NOT a wideband. (unless someone replaced the stocker with one).
Rebuilding that churbo would be a waste since you can find near new/low mileage ones for under 200.
Why not just pick up a vf30/39/43 for 250-350 (depending on year/mileage) and call it a day? The car will easily make 280-300whp on one.
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Old 07-05-2010, 11:27 PM   #99
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I vote for simple rebuild. Don't **** with what you know is gonna work.
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Old 07-06-2010, 12:27 AM   #100
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I'm with 18psi, get an STI turbo. Reduces the amount of work you have to do, is cheap, and flows much better than the stock unit. A lot of forester XT guys upgrade to the Sti unit.
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