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Did a little more goofin' with EBC and plugged it into VD. 2nd gear pull prolly not super accurate, but I've had great success previously with VD setup correctly (3rd gear pulls to fuel cut, SAE with smoothing 5) producing numbers within 1-2whp of dynojet numbers, so excited to see it so low. My class allowed whp is 184whp, so hoping once I get to dynojet I get to throw another psi or so at it. Already feeling way stronger throughout the pull hitting 1psi more than previous and holding strong instead of tapering. Still need to dial in target duty table, seems like my numbers are kinda high, but maybe that's some combination of 4.5lbs spring, two-port EWG, and remote mount (vs all threads here which are based off single port)? My MAC solenoid is 18min - 76max and this run was targeting 40% at 140kpa, seems like it wants another 1-2% then should be good to go. Started at 25% and it wasn't even close. I've also got the Boost Control Lower Limit Delta set to 10kpa b/c it seems to not even be hinting at overshooting. You can see it transition from 76% to 40% target duty table at ~5k, then it adds 1% to catch up.
Loved the racing footy cutting up each other's lines nicely. Also love straight up doing your thing.
Thanks man, dude was racing a bit dirty per GLTC rules (No reactive blocking / no forcing someone off track with overlap), but still managed to have fun and use it against him. And it's definitely fun working outside the box.
Originally Posted by Midtenn
I love the side mounted intercooler. Any plans to try to vent the hot side outside the car?
Yep, plan is to fully box in both sides, get some better angles/use less ducting on intake side, and then vent the hot side somewhere with some pull.
Some more dabbling with boost control (did some searching and slapped in some @DNMakinson -ish PIDs) and finally hitting / holding target more or less. Previously my boost duty was stepping by only 1-2% over a pull (did nothing) and I was a good 3-5kpa short of target. Still got some tweaking to do, but already getting much better results just cranking the sensitivity slider to 460, P=165, I=60, D=200. At this point just trying to tidy up boost duty table and AFR a bit via logs. I can't really go do a full drive around and spend time on it b/c this thing is way too damn loud and I don't wanna **** off the whole county, but just trying to get it close before a trip to the dyno.
Race weekend 3 on the setup complete, still no issues *knocks on wood* and maaaan is it fun with ~7psi vs the 3-5 I was making at RA and COTA. Boost control needs some work tho. Definitely had class power this weekend, in fact prolly had too much until the heatsoak kicked in. Lap 1/2 it was riiiipping. Long break to Mid Ohio in August, but plan to do a lot of work on the car b/c being competitive is now in sight. Was 3 seconds off pace this weekend on DIY butt turbo miata that hasn't been aligned and corner balanced since 2018 NASA Champs Definitely going to have to get the intercooler functional, need to fully box the rad opening as more boost got my water temps up to 207 at peak, need to do my best to optimize the Supermiata BX11 kit as my pedal was all over the place (prolly start with ducting and better bleed), needs fresh alignment, gurney flap for ****, etc the list goes on.
Also strongly considering upgrading turbo now that this thing is proofed out. The $170 T3 50 trim has been doing great putting up with my ****, but I think I wanna give a GBC20-300 a go. This thing needs more spool to really be competitive and I'm thinking going real smol is only way to get there. With my class power at 183whp I figure a 2554ish sized turbo should get the job done just fine, but have no idea how to read compressor maps, so uh...send it? If any of the MT.net brain trust has input I'm open to it, unless it's PUT THE TURBO WHERE IT BELONGS YA DINGUS.
Photo cred: Chris Sullivan
Oh and I threw a muffler at it for AMP and didn't get yelled at for sound (98db at 50ft) so that's cool, but def gonna re-work this with fab guy to get muffler not directly off the turbo. Just had a local shop slap this on in a pinch.
RT660's are not great in the cold and wet, but I was too lazy to slap my ECS's on while it was actively raining and took a nap instead. Here's a couple of seconds of boosty noises while getting stomped by buddy that wasn't too lazy to put his ECS's on.
Stoked to see the JGTC wing on. How was aero feel/balance? Any changes up front planned besides better rad ducting?
I noticed a huge aero balance shift when I went to a small and fully ducted rad inlet, so Im hopeful that I can get a class max undertray, airdam over-bite and fully ducted hood exit to make enough front dF that my wing doesn't get stuck at -1 AoA.
Also, I feel like nobody believed me when I complained about RT660s in the wet at NCM and Mid O last year.
Defaulting to ECS and PS4S in the wet is soooo boring. The 23" tall tire gang is really handicapped hard in that ruleset.
GLTC fan here - was excited to see your car in Scott's video. The wing caught me off-guard, but then I saw the center-exit exhaust and heard spooly noises from the trunk - "Ooo, yep, that's him!"
Glad you got out there and didn't break! I'm registered to run HPDE at Mid Ohio that weekend, will make sure I stop by and say Hi.
Stoked to see the JGTC wing on. How was aero feel/balance? Any changes up front planned besides better rad ducting?
I noticed a huge aero balance shift when I went to a small and fully ducted rad inlet, so Im hopeful that I can get a class max undertray, airdam over-bite and fully ducted hood exit to make enough front dF that my wing doesn't get stuck at -1 AoA.
Also, I feel like nobody believed me when I complained about RT660s in the wet at NCM and Mid O last year.
Defaulting to ECS and PS4S in the wet is soooo boring. The 23" tall tire gang is really handicapped hard in that ruleset.
Balance felt pretty neutral. In T10 and the last 4 or so corners (the entire fast sweeper and right kink back onto front straight) it felt great and was balancing well with very slight tendency towards oversteer. Just wasn't getting going fast enough that it really mattered. Was keeping my foot planted easy and just opening wheel a smidge to catch it. BUT. that's on 800/400 springs. I emailed Supermiata yesterday and Ed recommended 1100/600, so those are on the way. I think my rear was bottoming out causing some of the looseness at speed, but then it was (has been) a pushy little **** in slower stuff, so looking to cure that. With fully ducted rad I'm hoping it doesn't get loose at speed again, but we'll see. No other changes planned at the moment other than buiilding a new undertray b/c my 9Lives one is about dead. I'm also looking at moving the intercooler behind the main hoop / what used to be package shelf and potentially screwing up wing efficiency with a roof scoop, so that will also contribute. I might have to go to full size wing just to offset the dumbshit I'm up to
...and yeah, only having 205 ECS available is kinda boring, but sure seemed to work for Scott. Not sure a wider version would even help much in actual wet conditions, he seemed to be cutting through the stream with ease whiile I was floating all over the place even slowing way down on 225 RT660s. But I'm with you, 660 is terrible in the wet.
Originally Posted by ehodder
GLTC fan here - was excited to see your car in Scott's video. The wing caught me off-guard, but then I saw the center-exit exhaust and heard spooly noises from the trunk - "Ooo, yep, that's him!"
Glad you got out there and didn't break! I'm registered to run HPDE at Mid Ohio that weekend, will make sure I stop by and say Hi.
Heck yeah definitely stop by! Always good meeting more folks. Can't wait to drive MidO IRL after having done likely thousands of laps in iRacing.
Buddy is shaking down his "many more horsepower than mine" turbo Miata at NASA NOLA this weekend, so I decided to join. Going to throw on the 1100/600 spring rate change to see how that does, but will also be testing the Honed brake booster delete I installed last night. Initial street drive it feels great. The force required for lockup feels really good, not at all absured (to me), but feels like a lot more modulation. Before you judge me, my sim racing brake pedal is much firmer than a boosted miata brake pedal and that bothers me. I like to get after it braking and I figure anything that maps my thousands of hours of sim racing 1-to-1 to my actual car can't be bad. And if you don't know, I'm a big enough nerd at sim racing that I got 3rd in the 2012 GT Academy, went all the way to Silverstone just to prove I can't drive worth a **** IRL Also have some new rear calipers showing up today, so will get those on and bleed for what feels like the milliionth time. Only problem I *think* I have right now is I feel like I can't get all the air out of the system. I reset my pedal last night with the booster delete so there's very little free play, but even as I'm getting into hydraulics and the pedal is firming up it seems like it just keeps going, going, going. Pressure builds and I can obviously lock-up before the pedal bottoms out, but it feels excessive and my only assumption is I'm compressing air in the system.
Buddy is shaking down his "many more horsepower than mine" turbo Miata at NASA NOLA this weekend, so I decided to join. Going to throw on the 1100/600 spring rate change to see how that does, but will also be testing the Honed brake booster delete I installed last night. Initial street drive it feels great. The force required for lockup feels really good, not at all absured (to me), but feels like a lot more modulation. Before you judge me, my sim racing brake pedal is much firmer than a boosted miata brake pedal and that bothers me. I like to get after it braking and I figure anything that maps my thousands of hours of sim racing 1-to-1 to my actual car can't be bad. And if you don't know, I'm a big enough nerd at sim racing that I got 3rd in the 2012 GT Academy, went all the way to Silverstone just to prove I can't drive worth a **** IRL Also have some new rear calipers showing up today, so will get those on and bleed for what feels like the milliionth time. Only problem I *think* I have right now is I feel like I can't get all the air out of the system. I reset my pedal last night with the booster delete so there's very little free play, but even as I'm getting into hydraulics and the pedal is firming up it seems like it just keeps going, going, going. Pressure builds and I can obviously lock-up before the pedal bottoms out, but it feels excessive and my only assumption is I'm compressing air in the system.
After reading someone's troubleshooting log on here recently and talking it over with a long term Miata racer, you don't want any free play in the pushrod. If anything, you want just the slightest amount of preload. I haven't driven my car, but just a small amount of freeplay on the rod the seems to lead to a very soft initial push. I removed the free play and now it feels much more consistent on the jack-stands. I'm not familiar with Honed's setup on the pedal side, but on mine (had same Miata racer make me something) it should be easy to adjust at the track.
After reading someone's troubleshooting log on here recently and talking it over with a long term Miata racer, you don't want any free play in the pushrod. If anything, you want just the slightest amount of preload. I haven't driven my car, but just a small amount of freeplay on the rod the seems to lead to a very soft initial push. I removed the free play and now it feels much more consistent on the jack-stands. I'm not familiar with Honed's setup on the pedal side, but on mine (had same Miata racer make me something) it should be easy to adjust at the track.
It's using the original clevis setup, just with new pushrod. It'll take longer to get upside down and back out from under my dash than it will to adjust it. I'll give that a go.
Welp, NASA NOLA weekend went great. New spring rates felt fantastic, less fighting the car on entry/mid and some combination of MC push rod adjustment / new rear calipers fixed the ever moving brake pedal. Was getting normal knockback that was fixed with a pedal check between brake zones, but pedal was super consistent and I loved the force required for manual brakes. I'm sure these laptimes are still a good 3 seconds off what GLTC hotshoes would run in same conditions, but here ya go.
Also after my last four events being racing in GLTC (and getting *** stomped) running DE was hilarious. Chasing down a 1LE and GT3RS in a shitbox miata, priceless.
I'd log turbine inlet pressure (TIP) and compare it to the boost that you are making.
If TIP>Boost then at least a different exhaust trim is needed (maybe the whole turbo will need to be changed).
You are in boost most of the time and your turbo is a great distance from the exhaust valves.
If TIP<Boost then turbo sizing is excellent.
Many turbo applications have TIP twice as high as boost and this hurts power.
All turbos (even Borgs) will have TIP>boost at some point in their operating range.
What you're looking for is TIP<Boost inside your normal parameters out on the track.
For you I'd guess WOT above 5K is your "norm"
Once you get TIP< Boost you have a higher pressure on the intake side versus the exhaust side and a longer camshaft duration can be applied (more overlap as the exhaust doesn't barf back into the intake anymore).
Proper application versus incorrect application could be worth 10-20% power at the same boost level. The IATs will drop as well. Everything gets better when TIP<Boost
It looks like you are having a great time with your white beast.
Please include vids of GT3 kills.
Spend 250K on your new Porsche, spend 25K on equipment and training and then.
Have your *** handed to you by a sub 20K Miata...
Priceless!
I'd log turbine inlet pressure (TIP) and compare it to the boost that you are making.
If TIP>Boost then at least a different exhaust trim is needed (maybe the whole turbo will need to be changed).
You are in boost most of the time and your turbo is a great distance from the exhaust valves.
If TIP<Boost then turbo sizing is excellent.
Many turbo applications have TIP twice as high as boost and this hurts power.
All turbos (even Borgs) will have TIP>boost at some point in their operating range.
What you're looking for is TIP<Boost inside your normal parameters out on the track.
For you I'd guess WOT above 5K is your "norm"
Once you get TIP< Boost you have a higher pressure on the intake side versus the exhaust side and a longer camshaft duration can be applied (more overlap as the exhaust doesn't barf back into the intake anymore).
Proper application versus incorrect application could be worth 10-20% power at the same boost level. The IATs will drop as well. Everything gets better when TIP<Boost
It looks like you are having a great time with your white beast.
Please include vids of GT3 kills.
Spend 250K on your new Porsche, spend 25K on equipment and training and then.
Have your *** handed to you by a sub 20K Miata...
Priceless!
Interesting stuff, thanks for chiming in! Will definitely look into logging this to see where I'm at. Car is about to go back to fabricator for the new Garrett and 3" exhaust (up from 2.5"), but I definitely need to apply some actual data to this if there's any hope of making it work well, so appreciate it!
...and I'll look into putting together a quick n' silly DE "kills" and general fuckery from when the track was wet Saturday morning.
One of my biggest problems with logging TIP is the fact that in a normal system the spot you take your measurement is ALSO the very hottest spot in the entire system and you need to isolate your pressure tester.
Usually done with a 12+" piece of stainless tubing, the longer the better.
You still end up eating sensors regularly enough that after you've found the right turbo and the numbers are where you want them you remove and plug the sensor hole.
I'm gonna bet that the temps have cooled enough in 8+ feet of tubing to make sensor life much easier.
I'd take TIP readings at the inlet to the turbo in the back on your car. A logable sensor here.
I'd also put a temporary pressure sensor at the down tube from the manifold to verify system flow but with 3" you should not have any difference between manifold and turbine inlet anyway.
Might also be interesting to log EGT at both manifold and turbine inlet. I'd use stainless exhaust tubing. Anything that helps retain the heat in the exhaust should help your setup (but it eats pressure sensors!)
Does anyone have a sensor suggestion?
I'd like a single sensor that measures both pressure (50psi) and temperature (2K) AND can withstand 2000+ degrees F indefinitely.
It needs to be vibration tolerant.
It needs to react quickly (20ms)
Oh, it has to be reasonable in price as well.
Less than $200 would be a gift from the gods...
I'd also put a temporary pressure sensor at the down tube from the manifold to verify system flow but with 3" you should not have any difference between manifold and turbine inlet anyway.
Woops, 3" refers to post turbo. Everything from exhaust mani to the turbo will stay as-is 2.375" (because I already had RacingBeat header/midpipe). I've been thinking about wrapping everything from the header back to turbo just to keep heat in the system, but seems like on track that isn't really an issue. Might help on the street, but not really worried about that. One thing I might consider later on is actually going to smaller exhaust size, maybe even throw a stock exh. mani at it or a 4-2-1 like JacksonRacing.
02-27-2022, 08:27 PM
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Definitely going to have to get the intercooler functional, need to fully box the rad opening as more boost got my water temps up to 207 at peak, need to do my best to optimize the Supermiata BX11 kit as my pedal was all over the place (prolly start with ducting and better bleed), needs fresh alignment, gurney flap for ****, etc the list goes on.
