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Honestly, it idled at about 1,200 in almost all conditions, so that explains that I guess haha.
Sweet. I’ll scope out the EGO changes and load the tune on the car once I’m home later. Probably won’t have a chance to drive it until tomorrow but I’ll report back once I do. Thanks again!
Forgot I had my whole idle VE table flattened out at 79.0 or whatever it was. I was just playing with it after disabling ego in my idle cells. Is there any scenario where idle VE would be preferable? I’ve had it enabled since day one lol.
I’ve never found a decent use for it, no. Load the tune but decrease your minimum to 30 or even 20. You should do some tuning to actually find the correct min, but it should not idle at 1200.
Thanks man! Gotta see if my tuner is free to get the car on the dyno this coming Saturday so we can get the e85 tune done. Updates to come.
I didn’t get a chance to drive the car today. Been helping my girlfriend move in and spent the afternoon riding bikes so all I drove was the Transit. Gonna take the car to work tomorrow and Weds and will report back on how the idle settings work.
Keep in mind tomorrow, that I made some changes but I really need about 10 minutes with the car just idling to verify/set a lot of those settings. If your car doesn't idle at the settings I sent you, it won't work well. It was a best guess. Initial duty, IAC min duty, and a few other settings I need to see before setting them properly.
Car idles much better on the settings you sent, Curly. No fluctuation and much more stable AFRs. Still idles at around 1300 minimum but I'm assuming that's because my idle adjustment screw on the TB is almost all the way open. I'll turn it in a couple rotations and see what happens. I'm assuming I should have the screw somewhere in its middle position then work on setting the IAC duty minimum from there?
Oh, also EGO seems to be working way better and doesn't fluctuate as much during steady throttle conditions. Pretty dang good for just ballparking the settings you changed. Thanks for all the help thus far.
with the idle at 1300, verify your idle valve is at minimum, then screw the idle screw in until you see it climb ~5% above min. You then want to adjust cranking dc, initial duty etc to work well, but that’ll get you started.
Haven't had time to sit down and dial in the idle screw/IAC duty min yet this week but I did turn the idle screw in a full turn before driving to work this morning and the idle dropped to 1150ish (obviously). Idle duty cycle is still pegged at minimum at all times and ignition advance sits at a consistent 5 degrees. I should have a little time to play with it after work and get it to a point where the IAC isn't pegged at minimum to produce the desired idle rpm.
The car has started quick and clean in all scenarios throughout these changes, so what should I be looking for as indicators to make changes to cranking DC, initial duty, etc?
Taking my car to the tuner tomorrow to set up maps for e85. F*cking amped. Hopefully this pacifies my desire to buy an EFR until later this year lol.
Haven't had time to sit down and dial in the idle screw/IAC duty min yet this week but I did turn the idle screw in a full turn before driving to work this morning and the idle dropped to 1150ish (obviously). Idle duty cycle is still pegged at minimum at all times and ignition advance sits at a consistent 5 degrees. I should have a little time to play with it after work and get it to a point where the IAC isn't pegged at minimum to produce the desired idle rpm.
The car has started quick and clean in all scenarios throughout these changes, so what should I be looking for as indicators to make changes to cranking DC, initial duty, etc?
Taking my car to the tuner tomorrow to set up maps for e85. F*cking amped. Hopefully this pacifies my desire to buy an EFR until later this year lol.
AFAIK, the default eth% blending actually works pretty well for those settings, but there are options to setup a 2nd table for those if you find they need to be different on e85 vs 91. I think I'm using the secondary warmup table but that's it, the cranking, ASE, etc. just kinda worked with the default eth blending.
Stoked to see what you make! I'm on an oldskool gt2860rs, which AFAIK doesn't flow much more than a 2560 (same size exhaust housing), and my car made 308whp on e85 on pretty much "allofit" for boost (we were adding boost duty cycle but not getting much extra PSI so we called it).
AFAIK, the default eth% blending actually works pretty well for those settings, but there are options to setup a 2nd table for those if you find they need to be different on e85 vs 91. I think I'm using the secondary warmup table but that's it, the cranking, ASE, etc. just kinda worked with the default eth blending.
Stoked to see what you make! I'm on an oldskool gt2860rs, which AFAIK doesn't flow much more than a 2560 (same size exhaust housing), and my car made 308whp on e85 on pretty much "allofit" for boost (we were adding boost duty cycle but not getting much extra PSI so we called it).
Oh heck yeah. Good to know, I figured the fuel multiplier worked pretty good but I haven't done nearly as much research on e85 fueling parameters as I have with 91 octane. From what it seems, you can run e85 at a little leaner AFR under high loads due to the nature of it burning cooler? I'll inquire with the tuner about that tomorrow. I really just want to make sure the ignition timing is optimized on the dyno. My tuner's charging an hour to do the fuel and spark maps, and an hour is the minimum he'll make an appointment for, so I figured I'd just learn about the fueling parameters and learn from him how they differ from pump gas.
Curious, and I know I can probably read a few disco potato build threads and figure this out myself, but what boost level did your turbo stop making power at? We maxed out my turbo at about 17-18psi when it was tuned in the Summer in ~90 degree heat. When I put the built motor in the car again back in November and street tuned it at night in colder weather, my CL boost control wasn't working well and boost was fluctuating from 17-20psi back and forth. I could feel the extra pull when it was hitting the 20psi peaks, but from what I've read, the turbo should be well out of its efficiency range there. I've been running it at 17psi since.
Originally Posted by douginjenison
Just sell the old 2560R to me
I need one
How much you wanna offer? If I were to sell it, I'd have to order and wait until my EFR and Kraken downpipe came in. Not sure what Kraken lead times are currently, could find out if you're serious about it.
Curious, and I know I can probably read a few disco potato build threads and figure this out myself, but what boost level did your turbo stop making power at? We maxed out my turbo at about 17-18psi when it was tuned in the Summer in ~90 degree heat. When I put the built motor in the car again back in November and street tuned it at night in colder weather, my CL boost control wasn't working well and boost was fluctuating from 17-20psi back and forth.
Pretty much the same story. Anything after 17-18PSI and it wouldn't hold boost flat to redline without ALL of the EBC duty cycle. We also stopped making much power, I think the run at 20psi made 8 more HP than the 17-18psi runs, so we pulled the boost back out.
However, on a cold day I'll spike to 20+ PSI and it actually makes power there (lots of it, you can feel it), so the colder denser air is helping. In the heat I wouldn't spin this turbo more than 15-16 psi on a track car. I run mine at ~12-13psi most of the time on the track to keep things under-stressed
And again the 2860 I believe is nearly identical power wise to a 2560, my understanding is it spools a bit slower, and makes a bit less heat, due to the larger coldside. I do like the turbo on a track car, but a 2560 would be more fun on the streets. The 2860 is way more linear to build power. That said, I wanna move up to a gtx2860 eventually as those do make a ton of power over either of our turbos. Same with your EFR idea of course, but the gtx series turbos fit our setups as a drop-in.
Sweet, that just about confirms what I felt as far as higher boost in the colder air. I don't remember if we recorded any pulls on my car above 18psi, but I do remember my tuner doing a pull after my car's peak run (271whp at 17psi) and telling me we were out of turbo at that point. It was 11am in July so he probably also knew better than to spin the turbo any higher in those temps haha.
I really do wanna know what my car's making in colder weather, though. Maybe I'll see if we can do a pull tomorrow morning before dumping all the gas out of my tank. I know Dynojets (and all other dynos?) are supposed to compensate for elevation and air temp changes but I gotta believe my car was pulling timing in the hotter temps and that affected the readings.
What's your spool like? I was under the impression that my turbo wouldn't behave THAT much differently than something slower spooling on track because RPM is always above the threshold to create peak boost on track. The car is able to hit 17psi at 3,700ish RPM.
I was thinking I'd go GTX2860rs eventually since it's a drop in too. From my understanding, all that I'd have to swap would be the downpipe on my Kraken kit in order to go EFR, and the turbo itself is actually a tad cheaper. I think I calculated it'd be around $450 more expensive to do the EFR and new downpipe versus the GTX. Whether I'll ever do the drivetrain modifications needed to take full advantage of an EFR is to be seen though...
Peak boost (18+PSI) by about 4100 rpm in 4th gear. Really linear though, like at 2500 rpm it will make a 3-4psi, by 3500 12psi, so on. And this is at 7,000+ ft elevation.
Just kidding.
294whp/270wtq at 16.5psi. 240whp/206wtq at 10psi. God damn, the thing really moves now lol. I didn’t get to take it anywhere I could row through every gear yet, as I had to go straight to an event after the tuning session. However, just doing some 2nd to 4th pulls in the commercial area and hitting the freeway on-ramp it feels so much faster. I currently have my near-dead street tires (older 245 RT660s) on and it spins those no problem in second gear lol. I can’t wait to rip around in this thing once I have some time to go somewhere secluded this week.
I’m still gonna run it at 270whp until I’ve hit every track in the area at that power level, figured I should see what times I can pull before jacking up the power AGAIN. However, I’m amped the extra power will be there when I’m ready.
One thing that’s got me a little apprehensive though is the power/torque dip that shows up at 4K rpm. We did a bunch of pulls, including some on 91 octane before fully draining the tank, and the power dip showed up in each of them. My VE table follows this as well and I’ve noticed since day one that this motor has always pulled 24in/hg of vacuum at 4k rpm but 26in/hg at 3k and 5k. At idle, it pulls 21-22in/hg, depending on conditions. I did a compression test last week and all cylinders read 160-164psi cold. None showed any leakdown over the course of a minute but I still have to do a proper leakdown test. I’m gonna check the timing this week and see if I’m off but I’d assume there’d be a more pronounced running issue if that were the case. Also, interestingly enough, the car made 15 less whp and 15 more wtq on pump gas than the first time I built the motor. It was about 40 degrees cooler yesterday than the first time we tuned this thing though, so maybe the air temp and dyno compensation have a little to do with that.
However, all that being said, the car pulls like mad, the engine runs smooth, I haven’t found any metal in the oil, and I’m stoked with how it’s driving. I’ll do a couple more checks on the motor but have my sights set next on getting a second bucket seat, mounting door bars, then later on upgrading to an EFR setup.
Oh, and coilovers. F*ck, forgot about the coilovers.
Fixed the intake cam timing this afternoon and now the vacuum readings in decel are what you'd expect, with no random dip in vacuum at 4k rpm during overrun. The engine even sounds throatier. Upper end of the e85 VE table looks pretty happy after a quick street tuning session on the way home. Got a lot of fuel tuning left to do but just glad the lack of power on the dyno was due to something obvious and easily fixed. I swear I double checked the timing when I put this thing together.
Just loaded TS onto a new laptop. Did not realize the Max cell change settings were so high at default haha.
Did you go over 220kpa? Oh you said 16.5 psi, which is ~214kpa. IF you ever go above 220, which might happen in the cold, you’ll want your 240 row to be AT LEAST the same as the 220 row, if not a bit more. But definitely not less. I also like to make sure the row above my “max” on my ignition table pulls a few more degrees than the rest.
12-31-2023, 06:52 PM
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