Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats.
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Miata Turbo Forum - Boost cars, acquire cats. (https://www.miataturbo.net/)
-   Build Threads (https://www.miataturbo.net/build-threads-57/)
-   -   Re-Attaching all of my Cut Corners (https://www.miataturbo.net/build-threads-57/re-attaching-all-my-cut-corners-93693/)

vitamin j 06-22-2017 03:02 AM
Re-Attaching all of my Cut Corners
 
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DNMakinson 06-22-2017 07:32 AM
Why a 1.6 flywheel on a '96?

vitamin j 06-22-2017 09:50 AM
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vitamin j 06-22-2017 12:17 PM
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shuiend 06-22-2017 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by vitamin j (Post 1423516)
The MKTurbo kit is well thought out and solid. I did have a few changes I wanted to do, however. First I ported the wastegate on the turbo, I also ground a little channel so the flapper has more clearance and can open about 1/4" further.

Then I ported the manifold slightly, cleaned it up, and painted it. Instead of using the MKTurbo hardware, I picked up a set of TSE Inconel studs and installed the turbo using those. I am so excited about not having loose nuts any more.
I actually get my t3 flanges drilled and tapped to specifically work with the TSE inconel studs. While I don't trust my manifolds to be track "reliable", I want people to have the option of trying and not having to deal with the stud stretching issue.

vitamin j 06-23-2017 12:42 AM
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shuiend 06-23-2017 06:53 AM
Originally Posted by vitamin j (Post 1423633)
What is different about machining for Inconel vs. regular studs? I noticed they did screw in very smoothly and easily.
I would say something like 90% of the t3 flanges on the market are drilled and tapped for M10x1.25 instead of the M10x1.5 required for the TSE studs.

Originally Posted by vitamin j (Post 1423633)
Also got the rest of the exhaust installed. Two things: v-bands are awesome and damn this exhaust is massive! Also UPS dented my tip :(

Glad you like the v-bands, they do make it a breeze to install. Exhaust is large, but once you start driving and realize how nice it sounds you will forget. Also I recommend that you get 5 large coolant hose clamps and put them over the rubber exhaust hangers and tighten them up. This will help prevent them from sagging from the exhaust weight and help keep everything from possibly moving as much.

vitamin j 06-23-2017 10:54 PM
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vitamin j 06-25-2017 11:24 PM
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sonofthehill 06-26-2017 12:32 PM
You need to move your boost source for the wastegate can closer to the throttle body.

vitamin j 06-26-2017 01:54 PM
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shuiend 06-26-2017 02:13 PM
Originally Posted by vitamin j (Post 1424214)
Ok I will try that. That's how I had it on my previous setup, but this turbo came this way so I rolled with it.
A ton of turbo's come that way, because it is easy to do. Not because it is the correct way. With running stock wastegate or MBC it is preferred to run the vacuum line to the wastegate from after the IC to account for any boost drop in the IC. With proper EBC setup it no longer matter where you run the vacuum line from.

You are ballsy running 20spi so fast. Good for you. I hope you are enjoying it.

vitamin j 06-26-2017 02:40 PM
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shuiend 06-26-2017 02:47 PM
Shoot me an email later on if you ever want to upgrade to the larger turbo. Sonofthehill is running it and he says it holds top end boost a good bit better. I would suggest maxing out the one you have first and figuring out if it is good enough to make you happy. I am very happy to hear that you love it.

18psi 06-26-2017 02:49 PM
looks like you have a pretty significant restriction in your intake tract too if it's tapering that hard.

even with the terrible signal source you're using it shouldn't drop that hard usually

vitamin j 06-26-2017 03:04 PM
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shuiend 06-26-2017 03:11 PM
I don't think pipe size is an issues. People have done the math and 2" flows far more air then a stock miata motor will take without blowing up.

Sonofthehill had similar issues with the turbo holding up top. I think it more just comes down to it being a china charger and not a baller EFR.

18psi 06-26-2017 03:13 PM
more like cold side.
internal flow is not impacted by external damage unless you got the tubes completely dented somehow.

I mean, you're running a cheap setup with a chinacharger, I guess its probably not worth it to pursue major efficiency improvements, but you can easily test my theory by logging boost first at turbo, then at IM

if the difference is less than 2-3psi, then do what lars is suggesting

vitamin j 06-26-2017 04:06 PM
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sonofthehill 06-26-2017 07:49 PM
I have not tried my crazy wastegate can on the smaller turbo yet. I am not yet convinced that I wasn't just blowing the wastegate open at 6200 or so. The new can is capable of holding it shut with an incredible amount of force, especially near 20psi.

I have not decided what my next step is currently, except to run the large one for a while. Maybe to the end of drag racing season. :dunno:

sonofthehill 06-26-2017 07:52 PM
I do run 2" hot side and 2.5" cold side just as 18 suggested.

vitamin j 06-26-2017 11:52 PM
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sonofthehill 06-27-2017 01:03 AM
Looking at some old logs, I was able to maintain 15psi up to 6300 with my old 3 port boost solenoid maxed out at 100% boost duty. It does sort of look like my wastegate was getting blown open around 5500, but again, I can't be certain until I try the new can on the small turbo.

vitamin j 06-27-2017 10:37 PM
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18psi 06-27-2017 10:48 PM
major props for literally running ALLOFIT :likecat:

sonofthehill 06-28-2017 12:04 AM
Seriously, thanks for saving me the effort.

sonofthehill 06-28-2017 12:08 AM
The large one will hold 20psi past 7000 easy with proper clamping force on the wastegate. But it comes on a bit later than the insta-spool small one.

dr_boone 06-28-2017 11:17 AM
Can you post a log for an #allofit pull? It doesn't seem right to me that the boost would fall off that fast with the waste gate wired closed.

18psi 06-28-2017 11:24 AM
Why not? It's a relatively small chinacharger

vitamin j 06-28-2017 11:38 AM
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DNMakinson 06-28-2017 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by vitamin j (Post 1424592)
I will post the log after work tonight, I left the laptop in the car.

I am also at about 5500' so I'd expect the turbo to run out of steam sooner and make less maximum boost than at sea level.
That's one of the things I like about the TD04. If you are at 15psi at sea level (approximately 2.0 pressure ratio), and flowing 0.18m^3/s at 65% efficiency (Blue Circle), then go to high elevation so you need, say 2.3 pressure ratio to keep that 15 psi, you can still flow the 0.18 m^3/s and be at the same or better efficiency (Red Circle) making the same power. It won't over-speed either at that. (assumes EBC that drives the targeted manifold pressure, and that the turbine can support the compressor, which I think is easily the case)


https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/www.mia...167e28e28c.jpg

shuiend 06-28-2017 01:42 PM
Originally Posted by vitamin j (Post 1424527)
Well I did this, I think it's called all of it:

Same results:

This time I went all the way to 7000rpm. It's a lot hotter today so that's why peak boost is less than last night. It looks like it can at least hold 14psi to redline now. Time for a bigger turbo :dunno: I'll keep running this for now and dial in my tune but I'll probably upgrade soon.
Props for running all of it. You are one of the few edge case customers I have as you already had a built motor. So you could push as much through the stock turbo as you wanted without fear. Hopefully one of the larger ones makes you happy.

vitamin j 06-28-2017 04:23 PM
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vitamin j 06-28-2017 07:48 PM
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18psi 06-28-2017 08:00 PM
why's tps max out at 80?

vitamin j 06-28-2017 10:07 PM
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shuiend 06-29-2017 08:46 AM
You need to setup your engine states before you start doing any other 1.5 tuning. AidanJ has a few good posts about it if you search. Also the MS3PNP Pro handbook from DIYAutoTune has some decent info in it.

dr_boone 06-29-2017 09:07 AM
Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1424680)
why's tps max out at 80?
Also mine has quite a bit more timing up top. Someone with way more experience than me might want to look at tour ignition map

chicksdigmiatas 06-29-2017 09:13 AM
Originally Posted by dr_boone (Post 1424585)
Can you post a log for an #allofit pull? It doesn't seem right to me that the boost would fall off that fast with the waste gate wired closed.
When I did a #allofit pull on my Chinese 2854, it would go up to about 22-23 psi then taper back to about 14psi or 15psi by 7500 rpm rev limit. The poor little turbo cant provide the flow to maintain 20some psi up that high.

18psi 06-29-2017 10:38 AM
His log seems ok for what he's doing. Not great, but not bad either.
Probably richen up the midrange slightly and lean out the top end, as well as smooth out the timing between the two extremes, and not have it start tapering up top.

I'd be curious to see a proper virtualdyno plot for this. I bet it makes torque lol

shuiend 06-29-2017 10:45 AM
Originally Posted by 18psi (Post 1424766)
His log seems ok for what he's doing. Not great, but not bad either.
Probably richen up the midrange slightly and lean out the top end, as well as smooth out the timing between the two extremes, and not have it start tapering up top.

I'd be curious to see a proper virtualdyno plot for this. I bet it makes torque lol
​​​​​​​Hell I would love to see it on a real dyno. Maybe I should send him to FM and have him dyno it there. I am imaging the call to set up the session now. "Hello Bill, I want to setup a time to do a few dyno pulls. I have a miata with a $1500 turbo setup. I want to do a pull with the wastegate wired closed. When can I show up?"

concealer404 06-29-2017 11:13 AM
In for epic 500whp FM dyno chart.

18psi 06-29-2017 11:17 AM
Oh I just remembered that he's at elevation. Now things make WAY more sense. I was wondering why he was only just exceeding 200kpa when the gauge in video was pegging 20psi.
He's not making anywhere near the power I was thinking. Probably 250?

vitamin j 06-29-2017 11:40 AM
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shuiend 06-29-2017 12:42 PM
Originally Posted by vitamin j (Post 1424786)
Hahaha! FM is about 6 hours' drive from me but I have another shop with a proper dyno much closer to me (Welcome to MAC Autosport) that let's me run whatever junk I show up with. I do plan on dynoing but maybe not with this turbo, I just ordered a bigger one.

I'm using the MSPNP 94/95 spark map with 1-2 degrees pulled out at the very top. I have a knock sensor det can setup that I need to install and then on the dyno I will add more timing. Timing is what broke my last motor so I'm going to go slow with it right now. Thanks for the tips 18psi. I would love it if this made 250hp but I don't think it's anywhere near that. I'll do a VD run next time I get a chance. Yes it makes torque, but I have to be careful I'm still 5-speeding.
I did not look up how far you were from them. I know you are in Colorado and they are, thats about all I went off of. I really just want to see their faces when you roll in with an MKTurbo setup and run all of it like it ain't no thing.

vitamin j 06-30-2017 11:32 PM
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shuiend 07-01-2017 07:46 AM
Originally Posted by vitamin j (Post 1425180)
Well I blew my turbo tonight :( I was doing some acceleration runs in preparation of doing a VD run and on the last one as soon as it hit 20psi I heard a super loud whistle from under the hood and lost power. No boost after that, though externally everything looked fine. The turbo was glowing nicely. Once I got back in the garage I pulled the air filter and there is about 1/4" or more shaft play and the car is blowing lots of smoke out the tailpipe. Was hoping to boost for America all weekend but I guess not. New turbo won't be delivered until next week. Once it cools down I will investigate further.

I did some more reading and tuned my engine states, and then did more reading and saw that the general consensus is to backdate to 1.4.1 so I did that. Runs great, idle is fantastic. Still no sync, and no rev limit for whatever reason. I'm pretty sure all my settings are correct, is this a pot or something I need to adjust on the board? Any help would be appreciated, maybe I can sort that out this weekend instead of boosting.
Shoot me an email about the turbo.

vitamin j 07-01-2017 10:56 AM
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vitamin j 07-01-2017 11:59 PM
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18psi 07-02-2017 12:15 AM
why port when you're trying to run allofit?

boost creep is now your friend :)

vitamin j 07-02-2017 08:00 PM
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18psi 07-02-2017 08:02 PM
13psi? what is this, boost for ants? turn it up :D

vitamin j 07-02-2017 08:08 PM
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vitamin j 07-02-2017 08:08 PM
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DNMakinson 07-02-2017 08:23 PM
Originally Posted by vitamin j (Post 1425407)
I tried to run that log through VD but it doesn't log RPMs past 3000 or so. Does anyone have any hints for my sync issue since upgrading to 1.4.1? Otherwise I will just revert back to 1.2.0. I accidentally revved to 7400rpm today since I have no rev limiter at the moment.
Or 1.3.4. What MS3 are you running?

18psi 07-02-2017 08:56 PM
Originally Posted by vitamin j (Post 1425406)
That's all it will make haha. I had it up over 16psi going uphill once. It's just too big for my motor.
That cannot possibly be true. That's not how turbo's work at all, and it's not even that big. We ran a larger turbo on Ryan's 1.6

vitamin j 07-03-2017 12:43 AM
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vitamin j 07-04-2017 12:04 PM
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vitamin j 07-04-2017 01:06 PM
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vitamin j 07-06-2017 04:43 PM
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