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Old 02-15-2014, 01:16 PM   #21
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OK, the story continues...

Step 1
I took my new-found knowledge and set up the Idle Control like so;
Idle Valve Type; PWM valve
Algorithm; Open Loop
Crank-to-Run Taper; 10s
Valve mode; Inverted, 100%=off
Run valve before start; Off
PWM Idle port; FIDLE
Valve Frequency; 480Hz

Started 'er up and...4000RPM

Step 2
Disconnected the ICV
(and after a turn and a half CCW on the adjustment screw)
She started and idled at about 1000RPM (close enough, for now)

BUT I noticed 2 things;
1) the idle in TS was showing 1000RPM or thereabouts, but the tach in the car was showing about 500!!

2) The AFR gauge (Innovate gauge fed from a PLX Devices box connected to my WBO2) was showing about 14.8(-ish), but the AFR gauge in TS was showing 13.5(-ish). I had done the AFR calibration earlier using the values from PLX (AFR=2*V+10) to set the 2 points on the linear cal to 10 AFR = 0V, 18 AFR = 4V. So this has me concerned.

Gotta quit for now, the wife wants to shop so "car stuff" is over for now...
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Old 02-15-2014, 06:37 PM   #22
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SUCCESS (I think)!!

I finally found the Idle Valve Output Test (that I've been seeing in practically all of the threads talking about idle speed problems) and started fiddling with the settings - changing the PWM Idle Duty % in steps down from 100%. By the time I got to around 40%, the idle speed had dropped dramatically from 4K down to just over 1K, from there, it didn't matter much what I did with that value, the idle speed stayed around 1100 RPM so that's where I left it for now.

It's getting cold outside now, so I just set the base timing and called it a day. I still have the "indicated RPM" problem stated above, as well as the AFR being a tad over 1 difference between the gauge and TS. but I'll look into that later. Since there's no calibration on my (4-5 year old) PLX, my only recourses (I think) are a new WBO2 sensor, a different controller, or some way to calibrate the "system" so that both read the same thing.
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Old 02-15-2014, 07:28 PM   #23
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Doing some internet searching and found out why my AFR readings are different (cue "Music for Dummies").

Well, it seems that the Innovate gauge and the PLX output is calibrated to different values! (Why didn't I research and DO SOMETHING about this before!!!). Anyway, now my choices NOW are to;
1) Get a gauge from PLX ($100 and it's done)
2) Figure out how to recalibrate the Innovate gauge (ELECTRONICS - )

I think $100 is a small price to pay.

Now to figure out the half-speed RPM indication.
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Old 02-16-2014, 07:39 PM   #24
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Yeah baby!

it's idling now with the base tune from DIYautotune. I even ran for a little bit with VEAL running. Couldn't get much done because my laptop ran outta juice so I'll just chalk this up to experience and try again tomorrow.

It's a beautiful thing when your car is running!
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Old 02-18-2014, 04:17 PM   #25
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I've been running VEAL and starting to get a feel for "what it all means". Taking baby-steps every day (now that the weather has returned to normal). Yesterday, played around with the WUE, and today's goal is to get the accel enrichment dialed in better - the car stumbles badly when I get into the throttle with any amount of gusto.

Right now, I'm playing around with the boost down at 10 PSI, I don't want to hurt anything too badly if I do something stoopid. Once I feel that I'm getting somewhere I'll take out the '01 injectors and put in the green-tops that I've been sitting on. I don't (think I'll) need to go injector-crazy, my HP goals for now are 200-220, so the green-tops should suffice.

Yeah, yeah, I know...2 months from now, I'll be talking about bigger injectors and a new turbo!
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:28 AM   #26
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I've been screwing around with the AE settings and haven't gotten anywhere. Been searching through related threads and it seems like this happens regularly. I tried to copy some of the settings that others claim success with (of course, trying to look at those people with setups roughly similar to mine) and haven't gotten further.

Then, just this morning - after another unsuccessful attempt - I thought to look at the Duty Cycle trace in my logs and...lo and behold...I've just about maxed out my poor lil '01 injectors when I get above 5000 RPM! I thought I had more headroom than that with the (supposedly) 265cc '01s - I'm only boosting to 11psi max. So I guess I'll have to "Go big or go home".

My thoughts now are;
a) Do I put in the 305cc Supra injectors (is that enough of an increase to make a difference in the duty cycle percentage)?

b) Do I get something bigger now and just get it over with (I was looking at the FIC 525cc injectors, or should I go bigger)?

Last edited by rwyatt365; 02-21-2014 at 10:02 AM.
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:10 AM   #27
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I got a set of used RX8 yellow injectors (~450cc's I think) for $50 on ebay. They're direct plug and play, which is nice.
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:33 AM   #28
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PM me with a link, I didn't see anything for $50 even.
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:36 AM   #29
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Get the proper injectors (ID's or FICs are excellent), do it once, do it right, never worry about injectors again.
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Old 02-21-2014, 10:44 AM   #30
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It was awhile ago I scored a deal. I agree with 18psi though, good used injectors (sometimes brand new too) come up for sale here quite often, I actually plan on upgrading in the next few months.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:11 AM   #31
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Pro-tip: those crappy old ev1 525's you're inquiring about in the classifieds are crap.

I hope you're not dead set on buying crap just cause its cheap, but if you do I'll just politely bow out of this thread and let you run crap.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:18 AM   #32
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NOT interested in crap - if I'm gonna do it, I'll do it right. I'll take any advice that'll help.
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Old 02-21-2014, 11:22 AM   #33
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That's good. Just a rule of thumb: anything EV1 is mediocre at best. EV6 will work well. EV14 will work excellent. If you stick with either of the companies I listed you can't go wrong. But if you score a set of rx8 EV6's or some DW's or something, that should work good too and still be pretty cheap (50-250 or so). Patience is key
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:09 PM   #34
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Did some searching and I think the FIC 650cc injectors are ev14 (spank me if I'm wrong). then I ran across the thread from kero about running injectors from a 2013 GT500. I'm tempted but slightly worried about all of the adapters necessary to make them fit (possible points of failure?). I'd wait for someone to put up some ID's or FIC's for sale (even some RX8 yellow-tops), but I don't want to continue to beat the hell out of these '01s for too long.

Before pulling the trigger either way I'm soliciting input.
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:22 PM   #35
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yeah if you're staying under about 300-350whp on pump gas those 650's should be perfect. I've no experience with those gt500 bosch injectors but they are ev14's so still way better than old ev1/ev6 and I'd even go that route if you can't find fic/id.
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Old 02-21-2014, 01:32 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rwyatt365 View Post
Then, just this morning - after another unsuccessful attempt - I thought to look at the Duty Cycle trace in my logs and...lo and behold...I've just about maxed out my poor lil '01 injectors when I get above 5000 RPM! I thought I had more headroom than that with the (supposedly) 265cc '01s - I'm only boosting to 11psi max. So I guess I'll have to "Go big or go home".
With the non vacuum referenced NB 60psi fuel pressure regulator, 11psi in the manifold = 49psi in the rail so your NB injectors "shrink" as you add boost. Keep that in mind when sizing injectors. There really is no such thing as going "too big" with EV14 injectors and a properly configured programable ECU. We have guys running 1.6's on ID1000s with better idle than stock.

I'll be running FIC (Clinic) 650cc EV14's on my NB as my goals are "moderate" and I want some headroom.
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Old 02-21-2014, 04:39 PM   #37
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"The more I know, the more I realize I don't know."

"An expert is someone that knows more and more about less and less until they know everything there is to know about nothing."

I feel like more of the former, than the latter after reading all morning about injectors and fuel pressure and letting my noobosity hang out there for all to see ("Look on my works...and despair").

So I just ordered the FIC 650cc injectors. That gives me 2 weeks to get them delivered, installed, tuned and perfect for the SCCA EVO School on March 8! Wish me luck.
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Old 02-21-2014, 05:15 PM   #38
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As far as I can tell, you can't go wrong with Injector Dynamics or Fuel Injector Clinic. Lots of positive info on this forum about both. Personally I'd prefer something that's known to work rather than reinventing the wheel and then trying to figure out why that square bitch don't roll
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:08 PM   #39
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True dat...
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Old 02-21-2014, 09:21 PM   #40
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Oo, I made me a new sig quote

Hopefully you get your injectors in time and get things set up. If your table is already pretty squared away, it should be req_fuel, whatever the MSPNP2 calls injector deadtime (battery voltage correction? injector latency? whatever) and a little bit of VEAL. Good luck man!
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